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Deb, Try this link http://www.astrophoebe.com/ and select the 'Spin of the Wheel' article. On top of the fact that the basic premise is faulty, you seem to have mixed a lot of inconsistent reasoning here to make this hypothesis fit. It is really unconvincing, and without any historical support, it c...

So to conclude then, using saturn in the 12th:(take your pick or picks!) 1/ - it's a rationalisation of an error- would have been 7th in North facing chart where saturn is exalted (in Libra at least) 2/ house of bad spirit 3/ - cadent in aversion to the ascendent 4/ - squares the sun and moon's Joys...

Tom, I don?t think you read my previous post very carefully. There may be well be some cognitive dissonance going on here. My initial post was about the Joys and asked for people?s thoughts on the view that these might be a 'mistake' due to the original ?confusion(s)? surrounding clockwise/anti-cloc...

I think the way some people still cling to a Gemini rising chart shows why astrologers so often undermine the craft. The evidence is quite compelling that no one was up at 2am, it's not as though it was an urgent matter, and that Luke Broughton just invented it in the late 19th century because he li...

Tom. Ptolemy doesn't mention houses. If I recall I was pointing out that psychological astrology goes back at least that far. This is not to say Ptolemy, Paulus, Valens, et al were proto-Jungians. My point is that the use of astrology to get inside one's head is not new - far from it. What is notabl...

Thanks Ed for the Gauquelin info. Tom, I don't know nearly enough about what happened pre-Ptolemy to know if house=sign from the outset. I need to buy Houlding's book urgently as this is a central dogma of modern astrology. Rudhyar neglects to give references. He talks about how houses were original...

According to Wyss, Sasportas, Rudhyar and I'd assumed most astrological historians today, House have always been related to Sign. As Sasportas says you have the 'Outer' meaning of the house and then the more subtle or underlying principle. I'm not sure about Leo as he seems to be part of the Theosop...

Thanks Tom I have Alan Leo's -Symbolism and Astrology' which merges them, seeing as he died in 1916 we can assume an earlier date than 1927. Unfortunately the book is undated. Looking through the House Rulership's in Practice article here, I?m assuming it's from Deborah Houlding's book, you can see ...

Thanks Astrojin I posted this in response to the following articlehttp://www.astrophoebe.com/astrology/index.html#5 ''According to the ancient system of planetary joys the moon rejoices in the 3rd. This would have been the 4th in a north-facing chart, and would have corresponded to Cancer where the ...

JOYS

Hi all I was curious to know what people think of the idea that Planetary Joys become redundant if you construct a horoscope anti-clockwise. This has been done since the Late Hellenistic period although the practice of using a clockwise zodiac appears to have lasted in some quarters until the mediev...

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