As suggested, I have removed a few recent posts on the topic of which zodiac is the right one and why. This is a perfectly legitimate topic of discussion in itself, but it is not the topic of this thread, nor appropriate for this forum. I would suggest taking it to the Philosophy & Science foru...

Larxene, You start this thread with a great question. I?d highly recommend Gavin White?s book, Babylonian Star Lore. I believe this will give you a good sense of the living, organic process that went into the formulation and naming of the zodiac. You end your posts with a quote about the form changi...

This is what might mislead people about using a non-tropical zodiac, and I?m glad to see Therese and Martin clarifying things. The symbolism most in the west are familiar with is tropical. Throw out the solar cycle, and the symbolism must change. Therese discusses above how polarities and tripliciti...

Deb and Mark, Regarding your discussion on the first page of the VP shifting throught the signs, from perhaps 15 degress to 10, 8, etc., I don't understand how the autumn equinox would have fallen within Virgo in Manilius' time or before. I don't see how any Virgoan symbolism would contain such a th...

What interests me is whether Valens actually uses the equinox as the starting point of Aries anywhere. That would contradict his description of the signs at I.2. In Anthology Book I chapter 6, when Valens describes the calculations for rising times of each sign, he does so in such a way that astron...

James (Atlantean), thank you. James and Mark, I believe that the things you say just after my last post are not at odds with each other, even though they could seem to be. A vocal "siderealist" relying on a "tropical" chart? A "tropicalist" taking a class from a well kn...

Therese, I agree with you for the most part, and probably 100% in spirit. I?ve found that his writings are, as you say, thought provoking, even when incorrect. And I agree with you that it?s important that all of us, in this internet/Amazon age, realize that in the past, knowledge was scarce. Those ...

Before letting it slip by, I?d disagree that Fagan?s views are not heavily contradicted by modern scholarship. One example is to be found in A Primer of Sidereal Astrology (with B.R.G Firebrace, AFA Inc., 1971), where he tells us on page 12 that ?It seems quite evident from the copious evidence befo...

Therese, thank you. You began this thread with a question of mine on another thread, and your question just above (about ?relinquishing all the usual symbolism and structure? of the zodiac) basically sums up that original question of mine, in a broader sense. And it was exactly this broader sense th...

Bogdan, Interesting thread. My question to you (and anyone else) is about odd vs. even numbers. In antiquity, odd numbers were considered masculine, and even numbers feminine. This is almost universally noted. Numbers: Their History and Meaning , by Graham Flegg, gives a typical discussion of this i...

Nixx, My thinking is much more simplistic: the most basic, obvious trait of a planet having an influence on its enduring symbolism. Along the lines of blood red Mars, for instance. What were the moods of people - astrologers and non-astrologers - what were their feelings, regarding this new planet U...

Nixx, I wonder how much of Uranus' "sudden change" personality derives from the fact that the discovery of this planet is the very exemplar of sudden change to astrology. The American and French Revolutions obviously fit in here, buttress the case. But the revolution closest to home could ...