jeremy1988 wrote:In the 1043 chart, you get a sense that a new expression of religion (Jupiter) is now upon the people and their destiny (moon and North Node). Also, that the King (Sun) has reminded everyone including the Pope of his power as a ruler (Sun conjunct Sun).

In the 1066 chart, you see it expressed in another way. Religion (Jupiter) and law (Saturn) have become a problem for the people (Moon). This is an attack (Mars) on religion (Jupiter).

It seems like both are valid ways to look at it, depending on how you feel about the Pope and the Catholic Church. I'd suggest that if the Catholic Church was unpopular at this time, then the 1043 chart works better for this event. Otherwise, the 1066 chart works better.

This is a rather odd result; the Norman Conquest working better for the common folks while the coronation of the last Saxon king expresses the royal/establishment perspective. The Conquest might be interpreted as the founding of the people or the language. May look at some of the other event charts and see if this holds true.

(My understanding is that it took half a century for the Reformation to sink in, given that Henry VIII vacillated several times, and that popular identification with Protestantism took off with the Armada.)

It's actually conceivable that the modern English character everyone pictures came about in the Victorian era after the 1801 chart of the United Kingdom came into effect. https://emotionsblog.history.qmul.ac.uk ... ip-part-2/

My understanding is that English manners in, say, the Restoration era were substantially different; and in aristocratic circles at least things did not change all that much under the Hanoverians. George IV did a great deal to shape Victoria's sense of public propriety. The Methodist and other religious revivals in the late eighteenth and nineteenth centuries were another part of the problem, as was, later, the temperance movement.

Out of curiosity, I set up the Battle of Hastings. One interesting thing about the battle is that we can know exactly when it started, at 9 in the morning, and that it lasted until dusk. This chart does not appear to describe any nation of the British Isles, but it describes a battle whose outcome is very much in doubt.

The first thing you notice is that Mars, lord of the Scorpio ascendant, squares the Midheaven. Yeah, we get it, there's a war on.

The odder business involves Venus, sitting pretty in Libra in the eleventh, but at odds with an also strong Moon in her home base out of the eighth. On the other hand, Venus is under the Sun, but the Moon carries the Sun's light to Venus. And a collision with retrograde Mercury is inevitable; worse, the start of this conjunction will be a short sharp shock because of Mercury's early and Venus's late degrees.

So, of course, people are going to die, including Harold. According to the tapestry, Harold took an arrow to his eye. That's how retrograde Mercury sends a message. Eventually, most of the Saxon lords acknowledge William as their sovereign, which is why the battle is decisive. Venus wields the scales and acts as peacemaker. (Resistance to Norman rule was rather more effective in Wales.)

Yeah, that's an interesting chart. I never really studied the Battle of Hastings itself as much as the outcome and the things leading up to it.

It is primarily a 17th century and earlier English character that I'm trying to establish. I know all about the Victorian Era character.

What's interesting is that I've heard conflicting reports about how people in England felt about the Church. I think even some of the common people resented sending money to Rome. I'm starting to wonder if perhaps they represent alternate perspectives on the country in general rather than specific social classes. I mean, think about it... there were probably people that believed William or thought God was on his side, and those who lamented the death of Harold and saw William as a usurper.

The reason both charts could work is because they both represent different perspectives on the English character and on various political debates. Different views on the legitimacy of William/Harold, different views on the break with Rome, etc.

It seems that even to this day, people from the modern UK can't agree on the character of their nation. For instance, I've seen people advocate for a 1927 chart for the UK... which gives the same Sun and Venus as the 1043 chart, with a Sagittarius rising and a Leo moon. But my point is, if people disagree now about 1801 vs. 1927, then there might also be a debate between the 1066 and 1043 perspective.

The difference is, since the 10th century was so long ago, people just deferred to historians that had one perspective rather than the other without seriously trying to challenge them.

Well, I've said everything I can think of to say about the 1043 chart. All I know is, it seems to work as well for me as the 1066 chart does for others.

I just one more interesting thing to show. I mentioned it before, but seeing it visually really stands out...
Three planets in the 1927 chart are in the same sign placements as they are in the 1043 chart.

Sun in Aries.
Mars in Gemini.
Venus in Taurus.

Moon is near the Leo Jupiter and AC of the 1043 chart.
Ascendant is in the same sign as the Moon and North Node of the 1043 chart.

It just seems strange that so many of the themes in one of the charts that people argue for today, are found in this earlier chart.

Sure, it could just be a coincidence... but then again, nearly everything in Astrology could be a coincidence.