Impact of a Devastating Letter 1 by Taurus7 My friend just went through a fairly nasty divorce. What happened was that she wrote a letter to a friend containing detailed information about her relationships on the side. This letter was returned to her house undelivered, opened by her then husband, and all hell broke loose. This letter continues to be in the possession of the husband. The husband is resentful and capable of divulging the letter to their children; it could happen 10 or 20 years into the future. At the time that the divorce was still in progress, she asked the question ?What will be the impact of this letter??. Question asked June 24 2005, 73W58, 40N54, 5:41 AM, 9:41 Universal time, 5 deg 23 minutes Cancer rising. Although things have settled down, she still fears the impact of this letter and asked me to take another look at that horary. She is the Moon, and I think the letter would be the Sun, ruler of the 3rd. Moon is in the 8th, which makes sense, since she was in an extremely debilitated state at the time. But there is no aspect between the two. I looked for a contact between the Sun and Jupiter, which is ruler of the 5th (her children) and find that they are coming to a square. Mars seems to stand out in this chart; ruler of her 6th and 11th; in opposition to Jupiter and sextiling the Moon. The Moon sextiles Mars and then trines Jupiter. There is also a T-Square between Sun, Mars and Jupiter. I?m having trouble putting this all together and would appreciate anyone?s else?s input regarding this matter. Keep in mind this is not a ?short? term horary. By ?impact? she is looking far into the future, 10, 20 even 30 years. Thanks. Last edited by Taurus7 on Wed May 17, 2006 1:55 am, edited 2 times in total. Quote Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:49 pm
Re: Impact of a Devastating Letter 2 by Pete Hi T, just thought I'd drop by and take a crack at this one. She is the Moon, and I think the letter would be the Sun, ruler of the 3rd. Actually, Lilly, on page 236 of C.A., gives "messages" to the Moon, and given the fact that here the Moon is in the 8th house, and you say the letter is in the hands of your friend's husband then I think we can safely say that the Moon here signifies the letter as well as your friend - who identifies with it very closely. The 8th is also the house of fear and anguish of mind, and this probably describes your friend's mental state very well. I looked for a contact between the Sun and Jupiter, which is ruler of the 5th (her children) and find that they are coming to a square. Actually, Libra is on the 5th cusp so Venus rules the children. Keeping things as simple as possible I would be looking for an application between the Moon (letter) and Venus (the children) and there simply isn't one, so the short answer as far as I'm concerned is that the letter's contents will never be divulged to the children. The ruler of the 7th (husband) is in the 2nd so it seems to me that his primary concern is her money, and of course her significator is in the 8th, so the same might be said of her. I honestly don't see this letter as a threat to her closeness with her children. I think she should try to put it out of her mind. Hope that helps. I don't think I've overlooked anything pertinent but if I have then maybe someone else can jump in. Hope life is good, T. Take care === Pete Quote Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:14 pm
3 by Taurus7 Ah Sir Peter! A pleasure to hear from you again. Where have you been? Thank you for responding to my request. Just a few questions while I still have your attention... Actually, Lilly, on page 236 of C.A., gives "messages" to the Moon, and given the fact that here the Moon is in the 8th house, and you say the letter is in the hands of your friend's husband then I think we can safely say that the Moon here signifies the letter as well as your friend - That's interesting, and what you say makes sense in the context of the letter being in his possession, i.e. turned 2nd from the 7th. But now when I think about it, couldn't Mercury also represent the letter? And I notice that Mercury is about to conjunct Venus, her children... How can we be sure that the letter is the Moon and not Mercury? I looked for a contact between the Sun and Jupiter, which is ruler of the 5th (her children) and find that they are coming to a square. Actually, Libra is on the 5th cusp so Venus rules the children. What WAS I thinking when I thought Jupiter ruled her children. I really need to cut down on my drug habit...(just kidding...) I honestly don't see this letter as a threat to her closeness with her children. I think she should try to put it out of her mind. Well, that is encouraging...but what is the duration of a horary? Can it be used to indicate the probable flow of events that far into the future? I don't think I've overlooked anything pertinent but if I have then maybe someone else can jump in. Pete, I'm absolutely certain that you haven't overlooked anything at all because you are SUCH an excellent astrologer!! (oh, lucky Miss Sabena) If you don't mind, I'm going to go a little off-topic here. Would you be kind enough to tell me the difference between a planet that is in its fall and another that is in its detriment? Which one is in a worse state? And how bad a state is a planet that is peregrine? Hope life is good, T. Take care It's a lot better than it used to be. Good enough that I haven't done a "major" horary for myself for the longest time... Good to hear from you again.. Quote Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:24 pm
4 by Taurus7 Lilly, on page 236 of C.A., gives "messages" to the Moon, and given the fact that here the Moon is in the 8th house, and you say the letter is in the hands of your friend's husband then I think we can safely say that the Moon here signifies the letter I don't mean to go into overkill here, but just this weekend I acquired a copy of John Frawley's "Horary Textbook". In the chapter on 3rd house matters, Frawley states that once a letter is received, it becomes the property of whoever received it, i.e. their turned 2nd. Now if this is true, then the ruler of the 8th becomes the letter (i.e. it is in the husband's possession, 2nd from the 7th) and thus Saturn would signify it. I notice that Venus (ruler of the children) is conjuncting Saturn in just 2 degrees!!! So, I would ask: 1) How can we be reasonably sure whether the letter is the Moon or Saturn? 2) In the "worst case" scenario; assume that the letter is Saturn. THe question was "What will be the impact of this letter". How would "impact" be judged based on the conjunction between Venus and Saturn? Thanks again. Quote Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:55 pm
5 by Pete I don't mean to go into overkill here, but just this weekend I acquired a copy of John Frawley's "Horary Textbook". In the chapter on 3rd house matters, Frawley states that once a letter is received, it becomes the property of whoever received it, i.e. their turned 2nd. Now if this is true, then the ruler of the 8th becomes the letter (i.e. it is in the husband's possession, 2nd from the 7th) and thus Saturn would signify it. I notice that Venus (ruler of the children) is conjuncting Saturn in just 2 degrees!!! Yes that makes perfect sense doesn't it? J.F. is right - *so long as the letter is recieved by the intended recipient.* There is a law in the UK that says it's a criminal offence to tamper with Her Majesty's mail, and I'm pretty sure you have a similar law in the U.S. The fact is, the letter was addressed to the friend of your friend, returned undelivered, and opened by her husband. Technically speaking he broke the law, and therefore cannot claim ownership of the letter. The letter belongs to your friend until such time as it is delivered into the hands of it's intended recipient. I'm no lawyer, but it's no different than if your friend had decided to make a gift of a football to her friend, tossed it to her, and the husband intercepts it and decides to run off with it. To whom does the football belong? === Pete Quote Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:29 pm
receptions 6 by astrogoy I'm new to this list, so a little late on buying into this thread. I think Pete has it nailed by assigning the letter to the Moon. Its next aspect is a sextile to Mars. With Scorpio intercepted in the fifth, we could take Mars to be co-ruler of the children, and the impending sextile as signifying some kind of accommodation with them, albeit late and in a roundabout way. In the short term though, the children appear to leaving with the father, Venus and Saturn having just moved to the second house. I wonder whether, when they move into Leo, they will fall out of love with the querent, and just concentrate on her resources? And, speaking of Leo, I wonder what the Sun's doing right on the Ascendant like that? The chart is obviously cast in respect of the husband, who therefore occupies the seventh. Perhaps the Sun represents the lover. It is certainly in the detriment of Saturn. If so, I would guess it's all over, Red Rover. He looms large in the querent's life and, in Cancer, apparently loves her well enough. At the moment, though, he's peregrine and has no power. Moon, however, is strengthened by its mutual reception by rulership with Saturn. It seems husband and wife may still love each other, but the husband is at the last extremities of that love. And, given the Moon is in no dignities of the Sun, it looks like it's been a costly relationship, with not much to offer anyone. I'm happy to be shot down here Astrogoy Quote Wed May 10, 2006 6:13 am
7 by granny_skot I think it is significant that the moon is in the 8th, I believe this shows the power of the husband over the wife in this matter(divorce as well as possession). This was an extremely self destructive thing to do and the placement of the moon in the eighth here says to me that it was not entirely unintended. To put such info on paper, even to a friend was a grave risk, and suggests that the woman is willing to risk losing everything, even eager to do so. despite what she might say. Just a thought, Granny Quote Wed May 10, 2006 10:19 pm
Re: receptions 8 by Taurus7 astrogoy wrote:I I think Pete has it nailed by assigning the letter to the Moon. Its next aspect is a sextile to Mars. With Scorpio intercepted in the fifth, we could take Mars to be co-ruler of the children, and the impending sextile as signifying some kind of accommodation with them, albeit late and in a roundabout way. Hi Astrogoy, Thanks for your response. It's interesting that you said this; my friend told me that her son was, in fact, told about *some* of the contents of the letter without actually being shown the letter. And Scorpio being intercepted in the 5th also makes sense; the children were quite powerless in what they were exposed to and everything else that followed thereafter. However, Lilly did not give much credence to intercepted signs, and so I wonder whether we should either? And, speaking of Leo, I wonder what the Sun's doing right on the Ascendant like that? The chart is obviously cast in respect of the husband, who therefore occupies the seventh. Perhaps the Sun represents the lover. It is certainly in the detriment of Saturn. That's another interesting observation that I missed, and does make sense. And, given the Moon is in no dignities of the Sun, it looks like it's been a costly relationship, with not much to offer anyone. Regarding this; would this not be going outside the realm of the horary? The question was what will be the impact of the letter; would it make sense to delineate the relationship of the querent and her lover from the same horary? - T7 Quote Fri May 12, 2006 4:50 pm
9 by Taurus7 Granny Skot: think it is significant that the moon is in the 8th, I believe this shows the power of the husband over the wife in this matter(divorce as well as possession). This was an extremely self destructive thing to do and the placement of the moon in the eighth here says to me that it was not entirely unintended. To put such info on paper, even to a friend was a grave risk, and suggests that the woman is willing to risk losing everything, even eager to do so. despite what she might say. Granny, Interesting point. But why does the Moon's placement in the 8th indicate to you that it was not entirely unintended? I couldn't quite understand the "astrological" logic behind your statement. Not only is the Moon in the 8th, it is also peregrine. So if the letter is represented by the Moon (and we seem to have consensus on this) - now when I think about it - what strength can this letter possibly have if it is so weak? From this alone I could conclude that the letter will not have any strength at all to impact things. - T7 - Quote Fri May 12, 2006 4:54 pm
10 by granny_skot okay if you wish, more thoughts.... She is the letter, moon and querrant are one and the same, I dont think its coincidental at all, she has bent her every will to self-destruction. The moon in detriment in the eighth Quincunx (family disfunction) the Sun which to me represents the misdelivery of the moon(letter and Q) I also think that Mars is the man in question who is also a Friend, who is also at odds with the husband, (mars sq sun, sextile moon) The Sun is not the letter itself, because the letter is IN the husbands posession, the sun is coming to meet the family soon. Saturn here is is in the moons house in detriment and the moon is in Saturns house in detriment, so while they are in mutual reception, they are both undignified. (hence the childish nonsense displayed inthe divorce proceedings) The moon recently passed the wounded healer, but the moon here seems unable to fix problems in a healthy manner, hence the unfortunate blunder with the pen. Venus conj the sun, she has hurt not only her husband but her children with her silliness. She is perfecting a sextile to Mars, ruler of the 6th, illness and 11th friends, hopes wishes. With the moon in the 8th I'm inclind to wonder if there isn't mental illness here. But also I think mars is her hope, not a sensible hope, but he is what she has pinned her emotions to, and has used, in my opinion, to get what she thinks she wants, which is freedom from her family duties. I think she fears more that her children will find out she is not a good person, than she fears for their being hurt or upset. this is, in my opinion, a very selfish woman. I also think when Moon meets Neptune, she will realize her ideals are not quite what she was hoping for, Neptune has a way of being less than pleasant, else she may become totally delusional and need hospital care. Neptune on the 9th cusp suggests she wants devine assistance and will seek it, one can hope she gets the helps she needs. In her favor, the north node is far enough to the left of the MC that I suspect her behavior will not become general public knowledge, mere speculation, but She has given her husband all the leverage he needs to get his way in the divorce with that letter. Mercury also conjunct children (venus) and Husband (saturn) I suspect she may have hurt her parents with this nonsense as well. Jupiter in the fourth may also bode well for assistance from her family in this matter. (parents) The moon will perfet the trine to Jupiter in not too long, making me think even less that it is the end of the matter. the opposition between Jupiter and mars makes me think she has the opportunigyt to really screw things up some more because she will have again the opportunity to do what she desires, or what is right. Jupiter can be a very unbending judge, one can hope she makes a good decision there. I do wonder who Lillith is in this chart. Jupiter the ruler of the 10 is in the 4th, but really much closer to the 5th, so I am loath to say it is the end of the matter, I have the feeling that this is both a historical rebellion on her part, and an very bad attempt to get the attention she wants(5th house) Uranus the master of Chaos is on the MC, so there will be change in her status. for good or ill ??? I'd strongly suggest she get some behavioral counceling if it were my friend, after I ripped her a new one for being so careless with her family. But that's the kind of friend I tend to be. Of course I'd offer to drive you to the Therapists. now this grumpy headachey old woman is going back to bed. Hope you enjoy my ditherings. Granny Quote Sun May 14, 2006 7:17 am
11 by Taurus7 Jupiter the ruler of the 10 is in the 4th, but really much closer to the 5th, so I am loath to say it is the end of the matter, I have the feeling that this is both a historical rebellion on her part, and an very bad attempt to get the attention she wants(5th house) Uranus the master of Chaos is on the MC, so there will be change in her status. for good or ill ??? I'd strongly suggest she get some behavioral counceling if it were my friend Granny, All of this may be true, and undoubtedly she made a terrible mistake. But what, in your judgement, is the end of this matter? That's really the bottom line... Quote Wed May 17, 2006 2:07 am
12 by granny_skot I think it will hang over her for a long time, it is a family matter and the quincunx leads me to beleave that this will drag on. I dont think it has a clear end. (tends to happen with kind of thing, hangs on in form of fear, if he doesn't use it, or of self condemnation if he does use it. If she wants to this to dissolve at all, she'll have to work on her choices) Granny Quote Thu May 18, 2006 11:24 pm