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25 by Michael Sternbach
sabumnim wrote:
Michael Sternbach wrote:
Phoenix9061210 wrote: This makes no sense to me. I don't know how you can have those symptoms from having had diabetes for four years.

It sounds like your problems have other causes.

Hello: My diabetes and the symptoms, have been medically verified by several medical doctors, who tell me that the symptoms are very consistent with type two diabetes.

I have two friends who also have type two diabetes and they also experience symptoms similar to mine, such as the cramping in the extremities and sight issues.

Please remember that, unless you are a trained, certified, medical Doctor, astrologers cannot legally give medical advice to their clients !

Regarding the connection between diabetes and natal Venus and Mars, I do not have such a connection in my natal chart, but my diabetes is very real.

Instead of anecdotal evidence, maybe it is time for astrologers to do case studies in a controlled scientific manner, using the scientific method. Otherwise, you are really lowering yourself to "cookbook" astrology, which everyone frankly loathes !

S.
Phoenix can hardly be said to "have given advice" by his utterance, IMO.

The possibilities of "studies in a controlled scientific manner" are a bit limited in astrology, as the former assume a rigorous "whenever, then" kind of relationship between facts, while astrology is more of an associative art that paints complex, unrepeatable pictures.

Incidentally, your suggestion (if it were feasible) would indeed be in line with a "cookbook astrology" .
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26 by sabumnim
Based on your previous erroneous post, you don't even know what is a conjunction. So, in astrology, (an art science by all accounts) too many (bad) cooks spoil the soup, Micheal. Before you can do a research project on astrology and diabetes, or say how to do it, try learning the basics, first !

However like Lynn Koiner, you are entitled to your (anecdotal) opinion.

27 by Michael Sternbach
Looking at Theresa May's chart (see link above posted by Fleur) in light of this discussion, I first of all note that Venus is conjunct Pluto, both being square Saturn in Scorpio.

Besides the Venus/Mars (Pluto) theme that I highlighted above, an aspect between Venus (pankreas, and hormones in general) and Saturn (deficiency) is very common with diabetes.
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28 by Michael Sternbach
sabumnim wrote:Based on your previous erroneous post, you don't even know what is a conjunction. So, in astrology, (an art science by all accounts) too many (bad) cooks spoil the soup, Micheal. Before you can do a research project on astrology and diabetes, or say how to do it, try learning the basics, first !

However like Lynn Koiner, you are entitled to your (anecdotal) opinion.
Assuming a different orb than you for a Venus/Mars conjunction doesn't make my statement erroneous.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion too, but less so to rudeness on this forum.
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29 by Phoenix9061210
Fleur wrote:
I managed to open the link to your chart on your blog.

By the way, be careful with your birth data and giving out your chart. It is like your personal DNA fingerprint.

You have IsisTranspluto in 20 degrees Leo 40 minutes. Antiscion 9 degrees Taurus 20 minutes. So it is conjunct your Mars and its antiscion squares your Venus. I need to look at your chart a lot more before trying to comment, and if you don't want comments about your chart on an internet board, if you ask me to delete my comments I will try to, if the site's software will let me.
I have written my chart online a number of times and I am Sun trine Saturn, I don't make mistakes in that area, I am fine with people viewing my chart, although I would not give them the time and place only the chart.

I got diabetes type 1 (which is very different from type 2. They should be named differently IMO) on January 11 1999. There are a lot of very specific planetary combinations on that day although I did not look at them because if diabetes can't be cured (I have tried very hard) I am not too worried about the reason I got it.

People will not be able to plumb the depths of the chart and since I don't include a lot of astrological study in my understanding (rulerships, progressions etc.) I do not ascribe the same supernatural power to astrology as a lot of other people do.

With the chart and transits for that day being so interesting I thought I might offer the data up to Lynn Koiners data collection on medical astrology but only if I get around to it and am inclined to.

I have few memories surrounding my childhood I would like to discuss though. That I do consider personal. My memories did not form properly until I was diagnosed with diabetes. A lot of my life before eleven years old is a blank slate.

30 by Phoenix9061210
Trying to review some of these posts I notice the charts of me and Dheerpak are very similar. Nodes in the 6th/ 12th. Pluto in seventh. Moon in Sagittarius.

Lot of semi square and sesqui squares in both.

Clearly very different people but similar 'circuitry'.

What was said up there about issues being to do with financial difficulty and relationship break ups. Financial difficulty is everyone right now. Everyone has hit a bit of a rock at the moment as the government/ devil/ Pluto sucks the lifeblood out of everyone.

And more relationships end in break up than do not. It's something like marriage rates are the lowest they have been in 150 years and even when people get married divorce rates are more than 50%.

I fundamentally talks about and use astrology for things to do with global politics. That will actually reach some of these issues. You can't analyse being beaten up by a bunch of people and find any reasonable solution!

31 by sabumnim
Phoenix9061210:

Thank you for your interesting post.

While relationship breakups are more prevalent than ever before and finances remain tight, especially among the middle class, we, as astrologers, must instill confidence in our clients, especially our younger clients, that there will be hope for the future and a better tomorrow.

I have also done my share, by lowering my rates for my lower income astrology clients.

On the subject of finances, it is also true that there is a widening disparity between the working poor and the wealthy class, in every occupation.

There are also more millionaires and billionaires, in every country around the world, than ever before, and the middle class is becoming less and less.

There seems to be two groups, now; the wealthy class and the working poor.

The good news is that the future transit of Pluto in Aquarius might induce governments to share the wealth, more, and create a more equal world, as suggested by the theme of Uranus ruled Aquarius.

Aquarius is also co-ruled by Saturn, so the status quo may still remain.

I doubt whether the transit of Pluto in Capricorn, alone, will create a more equal world or even a more fair world.

The earth signs (Taurus, Virgo and Capricorn) may well benefit, however, from the transit of Pluto in Capricorn. Not so the other sinage.

Again, thanks for your post.


S.

32 by Paul
sabumnim wrote:Based on your previous erroneous post, you don't even know what is a conjunction. So, in astrology, (an art science by all accounts) too many (bad) cooks spoil the soup, Micheal. Before you can do a research project on astrology and diabetes, or say how to do it, try learning the basics, first !

However like Lynn Koiner, you are entitled to your (anecdotal) opinion.
Sabumnim I must ask that you remain respectful and open minded with every poster here.

It may well seem to you that Michael does not know what a conjunction is, however, that is likely your own assumptions and narrow definitions that may cause you to believe that. Michael is not new to the world of astrology and of course knows what a conjunction is. I should remind you that we can have conjunctions by entire sign, but also across a variety of orbs. It was not uncommon to give Mars or Venus an orb of 7 or 8 degrees for example, and even if you don't, the opposition to Saturn brings these two planets more closely into alignment.

Of course that may not be how you read it, but it's without doubt the case that Michael is entitled to understand and use aspects and conjunctions in this manner, and that he does indeed know what a conjunction is. It's highly rude and in appropriate to imagine that he doesn't.

It's worth pointing out, in the search for greater humility and forgiveness to other people's approach, that you have made a number of statements yourself which one could determine to be incorrect as well.
Venus is debilitated in Scorpio, the sign of Venus's fall. Mars in Scorpio is accidentally dignified, also, being in the 8th house, ruled by Mars.
Venus is indeed debilitated in Scorpio, but Scorpio is not the sign of Venus' fall, Virgo is. Venus is, instead, in detriment in Scorpio. In addition the schema of accidental dignities (better referred to as accidental fortitudes) traditionally did not include that Mars is somehow strengthened in the 8th house. No planets find especial strength in the 8th house.
Venus, said to rule diabetes, is peregrine in my own natal chart, save for a wide square with Uranus.
...
My Venus resides in Taurus
...
Pluto is trining my natal Venus
All of these statements cannot be true. If you follow the classical definition of peregrine it means that the planet has no essential dignity in the sign or portion of the sign in which it finds itself. Noel Tyl invented a new definition for peregrine, namely that the planet is not making any aspect to any other planet. If you follow the modern definition, then you are likely a modern astrologer and as such would not ignore the trine to Pluto. If a traditional astrologer, you would recognise that Venus has major dignity in Taurus. Either way it cannot be peregrine.

I point these out not to antagonise but to demonstrate how easily we can either make a blunder or typo, or else how we can have different approaches to astrology and that this variety does not lessen our astrology.

I, like Michael, would recognise that this Venus Mars conjunction has some effect on the chart, especially as it is brought together or connected by the opposition to Saturn.
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" - Socrates

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33 by Paul
My own reading of the chart is that like others have mentioned Venus is the significator of the pancreas.

Natally Venus is quite afflicted here. Venus is in wide conjunction to Mars and closer conjunction to Jupiter, ruler of the ascendant and therefore life force or vitality or health of the native. Venus is in detriment and opposition Saturn ruler of the 12th of chronic or recurrent illness and worse, receives Saturn.

Venus' natal promise or condition is that which leads to weakness in its essential strength, a tendancy toward excess (Jupiter) and opening itself to a weakness or recurrent/chronic problem or immoderate quality thanks to the opposition of Saturn. Venus, Saturn and Jupiter are intrinsically related then to the potential for Venus like problems.

On the day in question, the native was age 45, this was a week or so before his 46th birthday. At age 45 he's in a 10th place profection ruled by Jupiter. The Moon is natally positioned in this house and so the profection includes or passes to the Moon as well. The condition of the Moon natally is not great, it is for example not making any major ptolemaic aspect to another planet at this time or the near future but is positioned right on the MC.

At the time in question Saturn was partile conjunct by transit this Moon position, bringing with it the natal promise or condition with its affliction of Venus. In addition, in the solar return for the year, the ruler of the 6th (Libra, pancreas) of ill health is actually Venus with Venus on the MC and in aspect to Saturn in the 7th with the Moon on the 7th house cusp. The 7th house, like Libra, could also rule the pancreas if we accept that the pancreas is ruled by this sign/house.

With all these things in mind, it's likely no surprise that some issues of either the Moon or Venus would present themselves in this particular year and I would not be surprised to hear of other similar problems relating to the Moon or Venus in the natal chart in that particular year (Dec 2015 - Dec 216).
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" - Socrates

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34 by sabumnim
Paul wrote:
sabumnim wrote:Based on your previous erroneous post, you don't even know what is a conjunction. So, in astrology, (an art science by all accounts) too many (bad) cooks spoil the soup, Micheal. Before you can do a research project on astrology and diabetes, or say how to do it, try learning the basics, first !

However like Lynn Koiner, you are entitled to your (anecdotal) opinion.
Sabumnim I must ask that you remain respectful and open minded with every poster here.

It may well seem to you that Michael does not know what a conjunction is, however, that is likely your own assumptions and narrow definitions that may cause you to believe that. Michael is not new to the world of astrology and of course knows what a conjunction is. I should remind you that we can have conjunctions by entire sign, but also across a variety of orbs. It was not uncommon to give Mars or Venus an orb of 7 or 8 degrees for example, and even if you don't, the opposition to Saturn brings these two planets more closely into alignment.

Of course that may not be how you read it, but it's without doubt the case that Michael is entitled to understand and use aspects and conjunctions in this manner, and that he does indeed know what a conjunction is. It's highly rude and in appropriate to imagine that he doesn't.

It's worth pointing out, in the search for greater humility and forgiveness to other people's approach, that you have made a number of statements yourself which one could determine to be incorrect as well.
Venus is debilitated in Scorpio, the sign of Venus's fall. Mars in Scorpio is accidentally dignified, also, being in the 8th house, ruled by Mars.
Venus is indeed debilitated in Scorpio, but Scorpio is not the sign of Venus' fall, Virgo is. Venus is, instead, in detriment in Scorpio. In addition the schema of accidental dignities (better referred to as accidental fortitudes) traditionally did not include that Mars is somehow strengthened in the 8th house. No planets find especial strength in the 8th house.
Venus, said to rule diabetes, is peregrine in my own natal chart, save for a wide square with Uranus.
...
My Venus resides in Taurus
...
Pluto is trining my natal Venus
All of these statements cannot be true. If you follow the classical definition of peregrine it means that the planet has no essential dignity in the sign or portion of the sign in which it finds itself. Noel Tyl invented a new definition for peregrine, namely that the planet is not making any aspect to any other planet. If you follow the modern definition, then you are likely a modern astrologer and as such would not ignore the trine to Pluto. If a traditional astrologer, you would recognise that Venus has major dignity in Taurus. Either way it cannot be peregrine.

I point these out not to antagonise but to demonstrate how easily we can either make a blunder or typo, or else how we can have different approaches to astrology and that this variety does not lessen our astrology.

I, like Michael, would recognise that this Venus Mars conjunction has some effect on the chart, especially as it is brought together or connected by the opposition to Saturn.

Hello Paul:

I feel that Micheal, who has never met me and admits that he is not a medical Doctor, was rude to me, as well, questioning whether I am a real diabetic, then the comment about cookbook astrology.

Did you speak to him about those comments.

The Canadian government recognizes that I am legally disabled, due to diabetes. It behooves me as to why anyone on this site who has not looked at my natal chart, would say otherwise !

At least two posters on this thread discussion (Fleur and myself) agree that the conjunction of Venus/Mars for the querent is perhaps too wide for it to count, as a legitimate aspect and I think that that is a reasonable prognosis for this analysis. Generally, if the conjunction involves the natal Sun or Moon, we could give the wider conjunction more weight. But, in this case, Venus and Mars does not rule the querent's ascendant, 6th house, or midheaven, nor does it dispose of the Sun or Moon.

The Venus/Mars orb in question is actually 9 degrees wide (not 7 or 8) plus, it is a seperating conjunction, albeit opposed with Saturn. What that means is that, by secondary progression for the year 2017, the querent's progressed Venus is nowhere near natal Mars.

I think that Venus's proximity to natal Jupiter is a better place to go, here, since Jupiter rules the querent's ascendant.

Venus is debilitated in Scorpio, whether in detriment or in its fall, does it matter ? Venus is also squaring the nodes, another red flag.

I wonder if the querent's Venus Saturn opposition carries more weight with respect to the diabetes than Venus and Mars alone.

My own natal Venus is sesquidradrate Saturn, the ruler of my 6th house of health.

Although I am not a medical astrologer, per se, I have done enough natal charts (over 10 thousand of them) over 40 years, to tell you that Venus and Mars is not a unnanimous signature for diabetes.

Astrologer Robert Hand made the case in one of his books that the sesquiquadrate to Venus is not a minor aspect, but carries weight, much like the square, and acts like the square (90 degree) aspect.

I think that a case can be made that Venus and Saturn is related to diabetes, but also, subject to beta testing involving the charts of hundreds of diabetics.

Regarding my natal Venus being peregrine, obviously, I know what peregrination means. The Tyl definition works for me, but the sesquiquadrate aspect, as defined by Robert Hand, might make me revise the peregrination comment.

Anyhow, let's not play favorites when it comes to disciplinary warnings.

thanks for your time with this,



Sabumnim

35 by Paul
sabumnim wrote: I feel that Micheal, who has never met me and admits that he is not a medical Doctor, was rude to me, as well, questioning whether I am a real diabetic, then the comment about cookbook astrology.
Sabumnim

I have read every single post on this thread twice, I can only suggest you do the same. Here are is my conclusion: Michael was never rude to you at all, did not offer medical advice (rather offered advice on things which "may be particularly helpful"), he never questioned whether you were really diabetic, and he responded in kind to your own comments on cookbook astrology which you aimed at him for. In fact he has shown little interest in you as a person, whereas you in fact have initiated a conversation with him telling him his orb is too wide and later being rude and patronising that he learn the basics.

You are almost certainly confusing one of his posts with that of Phoenix who he quotes. Please be more mindful when posting to others as being disrespectful to forum members is not tolerated on this forum.
The Canadian government recognizes that I am legally disabled, due to diabetes. It behooves me as to why anyone on this site who has not looked at my natal chart, would say otherwise !
Not a single person on this thread has said you are not disabled nor that you do not have diabetes. I would guess that not a single person on this thread cares enough to comment either way. Instead someone, Phoenix, not Michael, wondered if you had some other medical issues besides diabetes which diabetes was exaserpating as he himself had never heard of such symptoms being associated with diabetes. Please be more careful in how you read people's posts - a good rule of thumb is to assume people are either indifferent or they have the best intentions at heart, you'll almost certainly be right the majority of the time.
At least two posters on this thread discussion (Fleur and myself) agree that the conjunction of Venus/Mars for the querent is perhaps too wide for it to count, as a legitimate aspect and I think that that is a reasonable prognosis for this analysis.
At least two posters on this thread disagree - Michael and myself. For clarity Fleur said the orb is too wide for Fleur to consider, and hasn't suggested other people should feel the same way.
Astrology, much like truth, is not determiend by popularity. If you feel the orb is too wide, that is a personal choice, it doesn't mean that anyone else has to agree with you. There is a tradition of using aspects by entire sign at any rate - you may not agree, but that doesn't mean anyone else has to change the astrology they do as a result.
The Venus/Mars orb in question is actually 9 degrees wide (not 7 or 8) plus, it is a seperating conjunction, albeit opposed with Saturn.
It isn't. It's 8 degrees hence my comment about planetary orbs of 8 degrees. Venus is at 21 degrees, Mars is at 13 degrees. 21-13 = 8.
Venus is debilitated in Scorpio, whether in detriment or in its fall, does it matter ?
Yes, to put it as bluntly as I can - people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. You have been critical and even belittling in your comments to others based on what you believe to be not understanding the basics. My point is that someone could turn that on your own posts but what would be the result? In other words before telling people what a conjunction is and deciding that they need to learn the basics, perhaps try some humility in recognition that you have made mistakes of your own, or offered astrological opinions that others would disagree with.
Regarding my natal Venus being peregrine, obviously, I know what peregrination means. The Tyl definition works for me, but the sesquiquadrate aspect, as defined by Robert Hand, might make me revise the peregrination comment.
Peregrine by Noel Tyl is described as a planet not in aspect to another planet. But in your case it's at least got three aspects - to Uranus, to Pluto and if you count sesquiquadrates, which you appear to do, Saturn. It underscores my previous point about showing some humility before deciding to take on the mantle of judge or police officer of what is or is not adequate astrology.
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" - Socrates

https://heavenlysphere.com/

36 by Phoenix9061210
sabumnim wrote: I doubt whether the transit of Pluto in Capricorn, alone, will create a more equal world or even a more fair world.
Hey, I didn't see this earlier because I thought the last post by you in this forum was on another thread.

Personally, I believe things will change for the positive very soon and that this is not a factor of astrology. Although the individual fights to get there are shown very strongly by astrology, such as the Uranus Pluto square (which gives a feeling of Good vs. Evil and piqued for the seventh time on the last Israeli election... Very tense day). The actual change itself is a product of free will. I.e. it could have happened in the past if things had gone differently with decisions people had made perhaps.

I have just been through it on my blog where I go through the outer planets plus Saturn and explain their negative and positive manifestations. The positive always begins and the negative twists the positive energy for its own gain. So when Pluto entered Capricorn we should have seen insight into our institutions and probably eventual Saturnian law and order based on this. But that did not happen and so tyranny was used to cover up the problems in the institutions and this became 'Austerity'. Furthermore this is why Pluto is known to be both. Psychotherapy and dictators.

Like I said though I believe things will change for the positive soon.

This is very interesting having such a hands on moderator in a forum like this.

The diabetes comment from me was that in my understanding diabetes is a progressive disease. Well, it is a progressive disease. So a persons eyes will be more damaged after 30 years of being a diabetic than after five lets say. Even with very bad control a person with diabetes should not get any longer term symptoms in the first three years. So when you said your symptoms were problems with the eyes and you have been diabetic for four years it would not be likely to me that this came from diabetes purely.

Remember I have been diabetic for 18 years. Longer than I was healthy for. So I do know what I am talking about in this area.
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