Hi all,

A bit of help?

My friend has lost a CD, and asked me to draw up a chart to try and find where it is. He has no idea how he could have mislaid it.

I'm reading Lilly and Frawley at the same time, and now I am confused as they seem to contradict one and other.

Frawley would always give the person who asks the question to the Ascendant, because they are the primary focus of concern, and this seems to make sense to me. I am much inclined to this perspective.

However, Lilly says,

Be careful to take your Ascendant exactly, and consider the nature of the Question , viz. whose Goods, or to whom the thing missing, or lost, or inquired after did appertain; if the Goods be the querent's own Commodity; then see to the Lord of the second; if it belong to the brother or sister, then regard the Lord of the fourth...........etc. etc.

So according to Lilly, I need to be looking at the twelfth, as the second from the eleventh, to show my friend's missing object. He gives no indication that a discrepancy should be made based upon who was actually inspired to ask the question.

I cannot help but think that the Ascendant should simply just show my friend, as it was he who has asked this question, not me, and the time I noted was the time at which he was inspired to ask this question, so it was the 'energy' of the Ascendant at that time that prompted the question in him. He is the primary concern here.

Had I asked this question on his behalf, and it was not him who had thought to ask, but the chart was generated from my own thoughts, by me asking 'Where is his missing CD?', then I would consider it more appropriate to have him as the eleventh and the object the twelfth. I would be the first, because it was my inspiration to ask, even though it would be not appropriate to interpret me into it.

It becomes further confusing still, when Frawley teaches that 'the other person' should always take the seventh, regardless of their relationship to you. An idea I am quite inclined to. For example, a friend, as 'the other person' involved in the question, would be the seventh, whereas a social gathering or a political party or a chess club would be the eleventh, because the eleventh is more what you do in the company of friends or those of like mind, rather than showing individual person's themselves, individuals always being the seventh. Sexual flings would be another example, as 'the other person' they are always the seventh, what you do with them sexually being the fifth.

For now, I am thinking that I ought to look at this chart with him as the first, because it is his question. This makes most sense to me right now.

I would also mention that with this same friend a while back, one night I asked him to hide three different objects over widely separated periods of time. As soon as he had hid them he came to tell me that the object was hidden, and from that moment I cast charts to find them. I found all three objects in the first places that I looked, based only, on information I had gleaned from the charts! I don't know who was more impressed, himself with my successes, or myself with the weird revelations of horary. However, there is a problem: when I cast these charts I was using the Ascendant and it's ruler to signify the lost objects. How could the charts have revealed the truth so accurately, when in fact I had been reading the charts 'wrongly'?

What do you think about such confusions?

Draco

Since your friend asked you the question, they are the ASC and their goods are the 2nd house.

I like John Frawley a lot but I just don't see how or why all people who we ask about are ruled by the 7th house. Since I don't have that book where he says that, I can't say very much about this. To me the 7th house is all about a kind of me vs. you, or me-and-you relationships like in a marriage or law suit. The key thing about the 7th house is the idea of otherness. Your marriage partner is the other person in your life, the person you sue is the other party who you are joined to in a law suit. In mundane astrology the 7th represents the other country that your country is at war with.

If your friend had asked about something that belonged to his friend, then you'd use the 12th house, the 2nd from the 11th house.

Hi Draco,

What Lilly is saying is that the thing being asked about is given the 2nd house if it belongs to the querent. He is giving the ascendant to the querent who is asking about his/her missing object, which is the ruler of the 2nd house. If the querent is asking about his/her sister's object then you would still give the querent the 1st house but the querent is asking about the object of his sister. The sister would be indicated by the 3rd house and her object by the 4th house, the 2nd from the 3rd.

I would be surprised if John Frawley was advocating the 7th for all relationships. This entirely defeats the use of houses in horary. There isn't a clearer way to differentiate between relationships than by knowing what house rulerships they belong to. I know that there is a widely held view, largely perpetuated by March and McEvers, that anyone who is named gets the 7th house but this is entirely incorrect.

Frawley doesn`t advocate 7th house for all kinds of relationships. A friend is a friend that means 11th house and his moveable possesions are 1st house. You are not important in this matter so let the possesions to take your place.

Best wishes
Trojan

As I understand it, the friend asked the question so he gets the 1st house, not the 11th. But if Draco asked the question, he would give the friend the 11th house and then the 12th house would rule the cd - 2nd from the 11th.

Hi all,

Thankyou all for your input.

As I understand it, the friend asked the question so he gets the 1st house, not the 11th. But if Draco asked the question, he would give the friend the 11th house and then the 12th house would rule the cd - 2nd from the 11th.

This was the notion that I felt most comfortable with, I just wanted some clarification, because I thought that Lilly was saying that a friend should be the eleventh whether they ask the question or not.

I think I know where to tell him to look for the CD.

I do still wonder however, how it is that on three occassions I was able to uncover the locations of three hidden objects one night, one of them being very obscurely hidden, in the first places that I looked, even though I used the Ascendant and it's ruler to find them. I never even looked at the second or the fourth. This causes me to wonder that if we make a mistake in horary which is sincere, or if we truly believe that by looking at one cusp over another the horary will still prove true.

Thanks,

Draco

I do still wonder however, how it is that on three occassions I was able to uncover the locations of three hidden objects one night, one of them being very obscurely hidden, in the first places that I looked, even though I used the Ascendant and it's ruler to find them.

Can you elaborate on this? Was this a test that you tried to see if you could find something? Or were these objects that were really lost? And what was your method?