Tom wrote:I am curious about the astrological reasoning for "short stature."

ac ruler cadent maybe.

I said he had an accident because at 21 Mars should be rising by secondary progression. But I didn`t calculate progressions,had no time.

May also be the youngest of all.

The native had two older siblings and one younger.

Chart shows lack of mother's affection (4th in the 12th). There is a possibility of losing father between 20-22 and suffering due to chronic respiratory ailment is also indicated.

I can't find anything that says his mother lacked affection for him or that he wasn't aware of it. However I haven't been able to find much of anything about his mother.

Also I found nothing regarding a respiratory ailment. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. The concentration of biographers has been on his mental illness, though.

I guess if you are asking about other aspects of their life then 10th lord Mercury in the 9th in Gemini with Jupiter would obviously be something that involves mental pursuits but you already mentioned intelligence and that is pretty obvious. Sort of similar to TT's chart recently, the influence of Jupiter and 10th lord in the 9th could show things like working in education, though they don't have Jupiter in the 10th or ruling the 7th, just influencing it, so I don't think they are a teacher in this case. I have Jupiter in Leo in the 2nd ruling the 10th and I have worked in education and government, and I also have Mars influencing career. They likely are well educated but sometimes Mercury in Gemini can be self educated because the person learns easily. As I often mention in the horary forum, Mars influencing the 10th lord or the 10th, especially in a negative way, also can lead to being fired or the person leaving their job(s), such as due to lack of satisfaction or just boredom. I have Mars in the 10th and have gone through dozens of jobs - not fired but just bored or looking to do other things. Mars cuts things too short and makes hasty decisions - the opposite of Saturn, which often takes its time or just too long and stays in work it hates. Also, as someone with a mutable angle myself on the MC, it can indicate dual jobs that have multiple roles or doing two different jobs at the same time. For myself, I either work while in school or have two jobs or jobs that have two roles. I don't think I have ever had a job that didn't fit that criteria or if I did it did not last long.

7th house Pisces is usually prolific for marriage but Jupiter is in a barren sign, Moon is not great, Jupiter squares Saturn and Venus is in aspect with Saturn and under the beams and out of sect, so marriage is difficult, delayed or just denied. Normally 1st lord with 7th lord is good for marriage but Mercury is translating the light of the square from Mars to Jupiter, so that is not easy either.

I am glad I got mental illness right. The problem with people who are very intelligent is that they do often suffer from mental illness but here it is very pronounced with the influence of Mars. I personally pretty much always find it unsettling to see an ASC ruler receiving a bad malefic with a Ptolemic aspect.

I am not really sure what to make of their Venus ruled 2nd in the 10th with Sun but it seems to be another source of income. Maybe others have theories on Venus. SN in the 2nd can squander money but Saturn, especially fixed, there can be cautious and show steady income, such as from real estate, land, etc., so there is some mixed testimony there. I recently watched a video from Lada Duncheva on the NN in the 8th and she said those people are often self sufficient but still have to deal with needing money or resources from others in some capacity. She also said it shows some emotional problems, such as distrust and paranoia of other people's motives, since NN magnifies.

Not bad. Substitute "compete with people" for "challenge people" and you're onto somthing.

Like debating or mind games? They don't seem very political but who knows. Definitely Gemini likes anything that keeps the mind challenged and the 12th likes to analyze problems of any sort. Sharing their knowledge with others in some capacity would make sense with Jupiter in the 11th with Mercury. The 11th is a group oriented house. I have a heavy 11th and I often think about groups more than the individual and he would gain energy from working with others and sharing his mental pursuits.

7th house Pisces is usually prolific for marriage but Jupiter is in a barren sign, Moon is not great, Jupiter squares Saturn and Venus is in aspect with Saturn and under the beams and out of sect, so marriage is difficult, delayed or just denied.

Bullseye. Never married.

I was going to save what follows for when I revealed the native, but now seems a good time. Don't make way too much of this because it is largely personal opinion even though it seems to apply in this case.

The older I get I think less and less of the idea of 10th house indicating career. It may well indicate what we might be well suited for (and at this point I'm no longer even willing to automatically grant that), but we always don't find a suitable career. I prefer Morinus' use of the 10th as the place of "honors" and I would modify that for our time by calling it "recognition."

Morinus lived in a time (17th century) and a place (Paris, France) where "honors" meant money from a king or nobleman that was necessary to advance in the world, in the professions. Patronage ruled. So when he says "honors" he means recognition that leads to advancement. And let's face it, recognition in our lifetime often does lead to advancement.

Tennis champion Arthur Ashe had the Sun on the MC and other 10th house/ASC stuff that indicated recognition (fame?) would come to him in his life, and it did first in the form of a Wimbledon Singles Championship and later as a civil rights advocate. If we didn't know he was a world class athlete, "tennis champion" might not come to mind when looking at his career, but we could see that he would bring honor to himself in his chosen field.

Our native is or was in a similar position. There is no specific significator, that I'm aware of , that gives away why he became well known. In fact his fame became a source of inner conflict. And the reason he became well known was not for illegitimate activities. He's no criminal.

Some jobs are more easy to see than others. For example, the high wire guy had a strange job and no one would look at his chart and think of a high wire artist, but there are still things there that make sense and suggest a performer and athlete. I agree that some charts are unclear regarding career, such as aptitude versus reality, but there are cases that are more obvious than others. Celebrities are probably some of the best examples because their careers are very public and focused on the 10th. Some people are focused on one area and it is very specific while others dabble in various things. My own chart is a good example, since it has all sorts of stuff going on there - and someone could just make the comment that I am all over the place with job types and that would be correct and valid. I do think in most cases there will be emphasis on something, even if that emphasis shows lack of focus on career. Often people with a lot of planets below the earth may not care much about career, for example. People with luminaries in the 10th, such as this person, often have very public occupations and just knowing that tells you something about their career, even if it doesn't say the job title. Usually I find the 2nd helps with the 10th to describe occupation because the 2nd is what supports us.

In my experience Sun and Mercury are still the strongest influences in career

if he is who i think theres no birthtime at astrodatabank,are you sure the time is correct?

if he is who i think theres no birthtime at astrodatabank,are you sure the time is correct?

I don't know who you think it is, but all will be revealed in time. Again the object is not identification, but application of technique. If we get things right with appropriate technique, does it matter, for the purposes of the exercise, if the birth time is off a bit? Practical application not personal identification.

Tom wrote:

if he is who i think theres no birthtime at astrodatabank,are you sure the time is correct?

I don't know who you think it is, but all will be revealed in time. Again the object is not identification, but application of technique. If we get things right with appropriate technique, does it matter, for the purposes of the exercise, if the birth time is off a bit? Practical application not personal identification.

ok but it is easier to guess the kind of job than rthe job itself,just like in the case of the guy who walked on wire
but note that gemini is the 10th sign

Tom wrote:I don't think the chart can show "your job." Mine sure as hell doesn't and it isn't too descriptive of the type of work I did, probably because it didn't exist when astrology was developed. Using the temperament, and some of Lilly's suggestions we can deduce a few characteristics that might be useful in a variety of work or even exclude some fields.

For example, a highly choleric individual is unlikely to make a great research scientist. He doesn't have the patience. But a highly choleric individual would make a good sales manager, athlete (assuming the requisite physical gifts), entrepreneur in any of a number of fields, soldier, etc. Can we take the chart of highly choleric individuals and pinpoint their career? I doubt it. We might nail one now and then, but the precision to distinguish each and every job just isn't there.

Lilly had a system that probably worked well in his society. Pick the strongest, Mercury, Mars, or Venus: the mind, the body, or the artistic sense. That's where your career would lie. That's about all he said about career. In this chart it's Mercury, so Lilly would say a life of the mind works best. That narrows things down a bit.

OK so next we go to "honors." Same ruler as the ASC, and that ruler is placed in the 9th house. So the native (Mercury in Gemini) is known for (Gemini on the 10th) what comes from the 9th house (Mercury in 9). This would fit a philosopher, teacher, cleric - particularly a theologian, world traveler, journalist or any of the jobs associated with those fields that are less glamorous. It might also be elsewhere, but we are taught it should be within that framework.

That's recognition. What about the mental illness that was spotted? Is there more we can determine about this? HINT: I'm not sure that there is, but there might be.

the illness is based on mars in 12th house,but by sign it is in the 1st.Still ,according to most classics Mercury linked to a malefic can bring mental problems.
as for 9th house maybe became famous abroad too or dealing with foreigners,but again,by sign Mercury is in 10th

Try a different viewpoint, if you wish. The following is the same chart, but using whole signs instead of the more typical Placidus. It does some interesting things.