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How Do You Give Someone Bad News?

1 by MarkF
Everyone,

Recently someone came to me outside of the forum and asked me to do a relationship chart, and as in most of them, the news was pretty bleak. The querant was Venus in her detriment in the 7th house (captured by her beloved), in an applying square to Mars in his fall. Mars was in the 10th. The Moon was in it's detriment in the 4th, just separated from an opposition from Mars. So the chart was easy to read - this is a bad situation but with that applying square, if she goes forward with it, it's not likely to be good for her.

My question is what should I say to her? I told her the reasons why I thought that the chart looked bad but after that, what kind of advice can I give? It's easy for me as a bystander to just say, "Don't do it. Forget about the guy." But I know that's hard to accept, and even that given the applying square it's even unlikely that she will.

Do I assume that because of the applying square that she's fated to go forward with this? Or do I assume that she's just very likely to go forward with it?

I feel that I've only done half of my job if I just read and describe the chart.

Any thoughts on this?
Mark F

2 by astrojin
Hello again,
Do I assume that because of the applying square that she's fated to go forward with this?
It does sound as if it is fated, well it probably is...
Or do I assume that she's just very likely to go forward with it?
This does sound like it's her choice. Probably it is...

Being sincere is important esp. when a client sits there expecting you to tell them everything. You have told her what is necessary and sort of warned her (if I understand it correctly). In the event that she DECIDES to go in that direction (the square direction!), it's her choice. Her CHOICE will bring her to her FATE/DESTINY.
I feel that I've only done half of my job if I just read and describe the chart.
You have done your part in FULL as an ASTROLOGER. Unless of course he/she is a friend and therefore needs a FRIEND's advice...

3 by MarkF
That's what a friend of mine who's a professional astrologer told me, that I've done my part. I just want to know what more can me said, because I do think that clients want more than just that. I'd like to be like a doctor who has good bedside manner.

And yes I do think that we do have free will and that a chart is a glimpse of the future of the path that we are currently on.

I can't think of what I should say, I just think that there should be more to it than just telling someone bad news.
Mark F

4 by astrojin
Well, if you are sure (or at least 90% sure) that the outcome is bleak, then that's that...

How does a good doctor tell a patient that he has a tertiary stage of brain cancer and has 6 months to go?

This is not that extreme but still important to the client. I am sure you are already practising some form of "chartside" manner...

5 by Gunhilde
I would agree with the others; the truth is important. It's also important that you be honest with her about the outlook. The nice thing about astrology is, she will still have Free Will in the matter. I think that the applying square doesn't *necessarily* mean she is fated to do it, but that perhaps she will choose to do it regardless, but you will be 'failing' your duty to her if you don't inform her of the inherent difficulties awaiting her.

It's a bit like Mission Impossible for her - 'Your mission, should you choose to accept it'. She doesn't -have- to do it, but it would probably be nice for her if she knew what might happen if she does. I'd rather have the brutal truth (personally speaking) than have information witheld that may make the difference in me making a complete pillock of myself, or not.

It's like the character in Little Britain: "Computer says, "Noooo."

7 by SusieN
Hi Mark

Personally I think the best way to spring bad news onto someone is as honestly, but at the same time, soothingly,as possible. What works well in this instance is to give them some hope for the future too. In other words, highlighting of the choices that are available to the person over and above the current scenario.(if at all possible)

Mostly I find that the querent, on a deeper level, already knows the answer to the question, and we often merely confirm that answer.

Hope this helps you

Regards
Susie

8 by granny_skot
Often when people come to you asking about a relationship, they already know that its bad, what they want is a road map to the future. as in "Okay, this is not going to work out, now what?"

I'm kinda assuming this was when venus was in Aries and Mars was in cancer? venus moved into Taurus, her own sign to work on herself, so a good road map here would probably be You need to not be in a relationship for a while, while you go and work on some personal issues, get straight with yourself, pamper yourself, love yourself. then when you are happy with you, a happy loving relationship is more likely to come along.

my two cents,

Granny

9 by borealis
I have had this situation happen to me. I was the one looking for consult on a relationship. I was MADLY in love and blind to anything that didn't include lasting happiness in this relationship:)

The astrologer very tactfully asked me, Do you think he is the one? I said oh yes! and he replied,

"You will marry and you will have a very happy marriage, you have a bright future, but he is not the one."

Hmm... And that was it. The way it was put to me didn't put fear in me, didn't give me too much and didn't give me not enough. It actually really helped because a year later when things began to go very bad, it was quite easy for me to step back and remember, "You will marry and you will have a very happy marriage, you have a bright future, but he is not the one." It helped me move forward sooner rather than later. Holding on to the idea that he was "the One" could have put me in some serious danger.

10 by MarkF
That's the kind of help I was looking for. I do feel that astrolgy should helpful to people, and just to give them the bare essentials of the chart isn't enough I don't think. Yet I'd want what I say to be sound astrologically and tied to the chart.

If anyone else has some example like that to give, I'd sure appreciate it.
Mark F

11 by yuzuru
John Frawley gave the example one time of the three witch sister of Macbeth.... Macbeth was fated to follow their profecy or not ? Obviously free will, decision and prediction are entwined, as they gave the profecy not to anyone, but to the exactly man to which the prediction would work !

See the planet of the querent and the state of his dispositor.... Frawley says that a combust planet will probably go to the bitter end, no matter the advice of the astrologer.

Yuzuru
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