hi aj,

thanks for the thorough overvew on aspects as practiced in the indian or vedic approach to astrology.. i sent you a message, but i see you have yet to get it... check the pm to you and get back to me on the idea of starting a new thread on aspects.. thanks! james

AJ wrote:

Timing down to a one minute difference in time is like what? 5 levels of Vishottari dasha. Keeping track of the threads of micro events like that through 5 levels he must have been a genius. I know very little of Krishnamurti system but have heard good things about it. For now, Lahiri and Chitrapaksa work well enough for me, but I am a Socratic.

I think he worked with planetary hours, and maybe house cusps. I need a Krishnamurti refresher myself. When I have time, I'll try to post his methods. At any rate, Krishnamurti Dasa and sub-period timing seems to be the most accurate. Lahiri start times are a little later.

Therese Hamilton wrote:AJ wrote:

Timing down to a one minute difference in time is like what? 5 levels of Vishottari dasha. Keeping track of the threads of micro events like that through 5 levels he must have been a genius. I know very little of Krishnamurti system but have heard good things about it. For now, Lahiri and Chitrapaksa work well enough for me, but I am a Socratic.

I think he worked with planetary hours, and maybe house cusps. I need a Krishnamurti refresher myself. When I have time, I'll try to post his methods. At any rate, Krishnamurti Dasa and sub-period timing seems to be the most accurate. Lahiri start times are a little later.

Therese: It would be fascinating at least to me learn a bit more on how Krishnamurti arrived at his ayanamsa offset from Lahiri. Hope you have some "free" time soon. Thanks so much. You mention "Krishnamurti dasha and sub-period timing" is this different than Vimshottari or a modified version? or are you referring to the Krishnamurti ayanamsa timing with regard to Vimshotarri dasha?
Cheers.

AJ wrote:

You mention "Krishnamurti dasha and sub-period timing" is this different than Vimshottari or a modified version? or are you referring to the Krishnamurti ayanamsa timing with regard to Vimshotarri dasha?

Krishnamurti ayanamsa using Vimshotari Dasa. You can check this out for yourself on your own and family charts.

There are six so-called Krishnamurti "Readers," one on each topic (Casting the horoscope, Marriage, Horary, etc.) I don't have the first Reader on casting the Horoscope, so I hope I saw the information on how Krishnamurti adjusted Lahiri in one of the books I have. The English is poor in these books, very confusing in places. I think his sons published the books as I vaguely remember. I bought these books in the late 1990s on a visit to India.

AJ wrote:

Therese: It would be fascinating at least to me learn a bit more on how Krishnamurti arrived at his ayanamsa offset from Lahiri. Hope you have some "free" time soon. Thanks so much.

Krishnamurti Padhdhati

Looking through the Readers, there are many examples of the techniques that Krishnamurti used for his precise timing. The short answer is that the degree of the ascendant rising is important. The long answer is that it’s more complicated than that. I think the best way to illustrate techniques is to give examples.

First Krishnamurti divides each lunar mansion into nine, proportionate to the length of time planets spend in Vimshottari dasas. This isn’t the same as dasa sub periods or bhuktis. These are permanent degree areas that never change. For very precise work these small periods are again divided into nine, sub-sub periods. There are tables for these degrees, and software now computes them in seconds. (K calls the nakshatras or lunar mansions “stars.???)

Example 1 (short story)
The ascendant passing through a Star shows that a person would receive letters. But how to indicate that the first letter would be pleasant, the next would disturb him, the third would irritate him? The sub period of the ascendant would indicate the 10 or 15 minute period when each letter was opened. (This example is from page 9 of the Third Reader, Predictive Stellar Astrology.)

Example 2 (long story)
This is a true life example that happened during a class. Krishnamurti was teaching. He actually had each student sign a paper (names published in the book) that his prediction was correct.

During the class the electricity cut out. Students wished to know if they should go home or wait for the power to be restored. When would the electricity return? We begin with the ruling planets in effect (direct quotes below):

(a) Lord of the current star: Mercury (Reveti)
(b) Sign lord: Jupiter (Pisces)
(c) Day lord: Mercury (Wednesday)
(d) Sub lord of Moon Mars: Rahu is in Mars sign (Aries)

[I’m not sure what he means in “d???. This might be a typo.]

"(Take the point ruled conjointly by the significations Mars and Mercury which would offer the results at the earliest opportunity.)"

Next K consults printed tables:

Direct quotes:
The difference between LMT and IST = 21 min 12 seconds. This is added to the figure, the result being:

18 hrs 52 min 19 seconds [for Asc. Aries/Mercury sub/Rahu sub-sub]

11 degrees 18 min is over by 18 hrs 53 min 20 seconds.

[He means that the required combination of planets (sign, sub and sub-sub) would be rising on the ascendant between 18:52:19 and 18:53:20.]

“I predicted that [the electricity] would come at 6:53 pm IST [18:53] and it did come.???

Krishnamurti writes: “Thousands of such problems had been tackled. 100 percent correct results were received.???

Fifth Reader, Transit, p. 183-184.

Actually in the above example, Krishanmurti has adjusted the sidereal degrees to the tropical due to the tables he had available. That is, the rising times of degrees were available only in tropical tables. Today we have sidereal tables and computers to do the computations for us.

We can’t argue with the precision of the methods used. It really does give us faith in the clockwork of the Cosmos. Creation is not an accident.

Therese Hamilton wrote:AJ wrote:

Therese: It would be fascinating at least to me learn a bit more on how Krishnamurti arrived at his ayanamsa offset from Lahiri. Hope you have some "free" time soon. Thanks so much.

Krishnamurti Padhdhati
Looking through the Readers, there are many examples of the techniques that Krishnamurti used for his precise timing. The short answer is that the degree of the ascendant rising is important. The long answer is that it’s more complicated than that. I think the best way to illustrate techniques is to give examples.

Therese: Thanks so much. I know this took some time to put together especially in such a comprehensive manner. I will read through your post several more times to really digest it all. Fascinating stuff. I thank you again and also on behalf and of the many readers that will find this illuminating too.

I like your approach to the sidereal signs as well regarding western elemental theory on your website. It's time we lift the "seasonal symbolism" nail varnish off of the sidereal signs.

Thank you, AJ, for your comments. Last evening my elderly brain remembered that an Indian, S. P. Khullar, has devised an entire system of astrology based on Krishnamurti's sub and sub-sub lords. I don't know if he gives Krishnamurti credit for the original concept, but Khullar now has an entire set of books on his system which he calls "Kalamsa and Cuspal Interlinks Theory." I have the books, and just now am beginning to review them.

Astrologers continue to use Krishnamurti's discoveries, and various books and journal articles have been published through the years by other authors in India. Carrying on their father's tradition, two of Krishnamurti's sons (K. Subramaniam and K. Hariharan) have each published a series of books.

I have done some editing on my original post where I quoted Krishnamurti, because as I said, the English is confusing.