James wrote:

... it is interesting how you have tied it together here in the aries ingress set to colombo.. would any astrologer have made a prediction based off this chart? or, perhaps more relevant - how many people would use this chart for any type of predictive work? as i see it the aries ingress chart has a long tradition in western astrology, but i am completely in the dark the role that it plays in sidereal astrology...

The western Fagan school uses sidereal solar ingress charts for mundane predictions. Ingress charts are one of the main predictive tools in this western sidereal system. That's where I learned to use them. I'd have to do some research related to these charts in India. There aren't very many books on mundane astrology published in India, and I'm very rusty on Varaha Mahira's Brihat Samhita.

Fagan school astrologers would place a lot of emphasis on the Saturn-Keu-Pluto stellium near the 7th cusp. I don't remember if those astrologers use the nodes. Western sidereal astrologers wouldn't pay much attention to Jupiter as it isn't angular, and they downplay trine aspects. And they surely wouldn't use the lunar mansions which are the main key to the chart using the mansion sub divisions.

In his book noted above, J. C. Luthra mentions the Aries ingress chart (and other cardinal ingress charts) as mudane predictive tools. These are sidereal charts. But the 12 solar ingress charts are valid for the 12 solar months of the year.

What is most interesting about the KP/Khullar systems is that the are thoroughly Indian, based on the original ancient nakshatras/lunar mansions rather than strictly on the 12 sign zodiac. The foundation principles of the 12 sign zodiac come from the west, and are incorporated in Parashara astrology.

The KP/Khullar systems use these same basic principles, but the emphasis is shifted to the nakshatras. Krishnamurti humbly claims a sort of divine inspiration for the nakshatra principles he discovered. Unlike zodiacal astrology, these principles can't be traced to the west, as they are based on Indian Vimshottari measurements.

hi therese,

thanks for giving me an overview of your understanding on all this.. i was particularly interested-fascinated in how you did bring the nakshatra ruler of jupiter and the sun together in giving this overview here.. in the book i have by prash trivide on the nakshatras he listed the rulers of the different nakshatras and i wondered how this played out in terms of the overall meaning of the nakshatra.. and i was curious as i mentioned earlier if there is any analysis of different planets in different nakshatras that connect with the ruler of the nakshatra..

as aj was mentioning in the assange thread, it seems the saturn-pluto-ketu combo has major ramifications for mundane astrology and is a challenging combo to process.. the meanings of the nodes are so complex, it is hard to figure out who or what is the bad guy and who is the good guy in it all.. i know this is a simplification of understanding the nodes, but i have seen them presented so many different ways, i remain open to learning more in an ongoing way and haven't really got my mind made up on their role, other then to believe they play a central role in everything due the role they play in the eclipse data we use to understand the world better... thanks for your post therese - james

James wrote:

In the book i have by prash trivide on the nakshatras he listed the rulers of the different nakshatras and i wondered how this played out in terms of the overall meaning of the nakshatra.. and i was curious as i mentioned earlier if there is any analysis of different planets in different nakshatras that connect with the ruler of the nakshatra..

The actual meanings of the nakshatras/lunar mansions are more related to ruling deities and star groups in the sky. The planetary lords are used for timing in the Vimshottari system, and Krishnamruti has shown that they act as dispositors for planets. Apparently also (according to Krishnamurti and S.P. Khullar) the mansions can be further broken down into small segments with planetary lords which act to link planets and houses together. I gave an example of this procedure for the Aries ingress chart.

But no, the mansion lords themselves seem to have little or no effect on the characteristics of the mansions. They are simply pointers to other parts of the chart and important for timing events. Since the 1990s there have been a number of new books published on the mansions, but there is no research telling us if all the various new mansion traits are real or only theoretical. We have to go on our own observation.

okay thanks therese... and yes, i was aware of the fact the nakshatras are broken down into 4 smaller segments as well... all good to know.. thanks!

I meant that the KP/Khullar systems divide each mansion into nine and then into nine again to get the tiny "Nadi" divisions. The breakdown into four padas are the navamsas. There is really no relationship between the navamsas and the KP/Khullar divisions.

The navamsas can stand alone as the ninth harmonic or they can be fit four into each mansion. Khullar seems to be trying to discover whether the sub2 (sub-sub) segments are really the ancient nadi divisions. These range in size from 2 astrological minutes to 22.2 minutes, less than half a degree of 30 minutes. He suggests that these small divisions point to the uniqueness of each birth chart. He points out that 2 astrological minutes are equal to about 8 seconds in clock time.

okay, thanks! that is different and i don't know anything about that! that is like micro, micro analysis.. reminds me a bit of sabian symbols..