What house would you use to signify an ex?

I would be inclined to use the 7th house. You still have an intimate relationship with an ex-lover, even if you are no longer together. Also, the 7th house is also the house of open enemies--ex-lovers do sometimes become enemies, depending on the circumstances of the break-up.

It depends on the question you're asking and how you see the person. If you want to get back together with them, they're the 7th house ruler. If they are truly a friend, they are the 11th house ruler.

what if it is the ex lover of a current love who you wish would go away? Obviously the current lover is the seventh house, so that's where you'd count if from.

Virgolass,

You'd have to have the chart in front of you. You're basic quesion is all about this current person, who's seen by the 7th house. If your lover is seeing someone else, that person may or may not show up in your chart. I've seen plenty of both kinds of charts. The real question, that one that will always show up in your chart is how things are between you and your partner.

The other person may show up as a planet who is in aspect with the 7th house ruler, or is positioned in the 7th house. Or maybe they will show up as a planet who is in reception by sign or exaltation with the 7th house ruler. Either way, the real action would still be between the ASC ruler, 7th house ruler and the Moon.

Hmm. I'm being inarticulate. The concern I have is whether this person is going to cause me any difficulty. She's a bit crazy. I do not worry about him still seeing her. I've met her and I'm looking for some insight on the potential interaction between the two of us.

Well, if that truly is the case, then how do you see her? Is she a friend, an open enemy, a secret enemy? That would be 11th, 7th, and 12th respectively. Is she crazy? Since your connection to her is still through your BF, I might still place him as the 7th and go from there.

Do you have a chart that's alreay cast, or are you thinking about this before you do one?

If I were wanted to cast a horary to acquire some information about this sort of situation, here's how I would go about it:

First, I would ask the question in this way:

"Will (crazy-exgirlfriend-of-my-current-lover's name) cause me trouble in some way?"

With this question, I would be the querent/first house--of course--and crazy-exgirlfriend-of-my-current-lover becomes the quesited/seventh house. In other words, the question is worded so that it becomes about how this other person and I relate to one another. The aspects between the two significators and the general condition of the significators should reveal how the two of you relate--stressful aspects indicate stressful relating; no aspects indicate no relating, etc.

I would tend to think the seventh house would be a valid house here to represent the crazy-exgirlfriend-of-the-current-lover for two reasons. (1) The seventh can be used to represent any one-on-one relationship that is not otherwise defined and (2) the seventh can be used to represent enemies/opponents/rivals/competitors, and it seems to me that a crazy-exgirlfriend-of-one's-current-boyfriend could fall into the rival/enemy category.

My rule of thumb when casting horaries for myself is to ask the question in a way that will make it simplest for me to answer. I try to avoid asking questions in a manner that will require me to turn the chart a million times or hunt for significators. Personally, I have found this to be a good discipline, because it forces me to really boil things down to essentials--to get really clear about what exactly I want to know and what the main components of the situation are.

If I am following the progression of this thread properly, it seems to me that the essential thing you want to know is if this particular woman will cause you trouble in any way. You are seeking information about how she relates to you--that is a first house-seventh house question. She happens to be an exgirlfriend of your current lover; this information is descriptive of the circumstances surrounding the question, and ideally it should show up in some way if the chart is radical--maybe through the moon's separating aspects, or the aspects that the quesited's significator makes to other planets. However, I don't think you need to include all this information in the actual question. Keep It Simple, Sweetie!

Hope this helps!

Ok, Amethyst, thank you so much. Based on your advice, I drew a chart for June 27, 12:00 noon, Salt Lake City, UT. Using placidus systems, I got a virgo ascendant at 17 degrees. I took this as a good sign of the chart being radical as I myself am a virgo and the moon was not voc.

So then the seventh hosue ruler is jupiter. (piseces)

Both mercury and the moon are in applying square to jupiter in the second house. So perhaps there will be some conflic and issues perhaps about posesiveness.

As this is a very new romantic relationship, I felt it possible to use the fifth house for the boyfriend, especially as he's somewhat younger than I. If I do this, his significator is saturn which is in a separating square from jupiter. Both mercury and the moon are in applying conjucntion.

So, If I'm reading this right, Yes. there will be some drama, but he and I will continue to get closer while the two of them will not.

Does this sound about right? Any other tips for th newbie?

oh yeah...and also merc and moon (me) in applying sextile to venus and venus in applying sextile to saturn. One more thing linking us if I use fifth house. (And I think fifth can be the boyfriend as a. the "relationship" I'm really askig about is between me and the crazy girl, so she'd be the seventh and b. the relationship has only been about a month.)

I hate to be a killjoy to this, but when you start off asking about this other woman, and not about your current boyfriend, alarm bells go off. And then after the chart is cast you talk about "he and I will continue to get closer while the two of them will not" my suspicions are strengthened. In a recent post to another topic Sue and Deb both put it better than I can about how important it is to be straight about what the question really is and I strongly suspect that your question is more about your current boyfriend and you, as it should be. This isn?t a criticism as much as it is advice to be honest about what the prize is that you?re looking for. Sure, you don?t want an ex-girlfriend to be hassling you, but the real prize has to be what you want from this guy.

A chart will tell us about things we want from life. Lilly uses the term ?the Significator of the thing looked after? because we all want something from the situations where a chart is done. It?s our personal and emotional involvement that animates a chart. And the best charts come out of situations where our emotions are strong and raw even. So the thing that you want, the thing that is sought after is the boyfriend. The other woman is secondary to the question.

And the really amazing thing is that in both of these questions, the charts are almost exactly the same, except for the Moon of course.

So Virgolass would the ASC ruler Mercury while the guy will be the 7th house ruler Jupiter.

The chart isn't radical by the standard rules of the planetary hour matching the ASC in some way. I know most don't use that standard any more or in the same way, but I am tending to more and more. But most today would judge it anyways.

There are two ways to look for the other woman here, but the basic answer to the chart is still the same.

One way is to assign Saturn as the other woman. That is because Saturn is in a partile aspect with Jupiter, so it could be someone he?s involved with. She may or may not be crazy, but he (Jupiter) is still closely involved with her. At this time Saturn is moving faster than Jupiter, which is retrograde and is separating from a square to Jupiter. But after Jupiter turns direct, he will apply again by square to Saturn. In other words, he's gone back to her once before and they will meet again. And they will be involved, albeit in a bad way for some time, as Jupiter and Saturn take quite a while to perfect that square. The bottom line is that a square with Saturn in detriment with no reception is pretty bad. As they are currently in a partile square, it even affects his accidental dignity in this chart. In other words, he is plagued by her still.

The other possibility for finding the other woman here is to use Venus to symbolize her, as Venus is the natural significator of women. This is in keeping with some guidelines that Lilly put worth as well.

But either way, if Saturn represents the other woman, or is just an obstacle in the path, he still plagues Virgolass?s boyfriend and really prevents much of anything good from happening between them. Either he?s still involved with this other woman, or he?s just unavailable due to his own problems, but the bottom line here is that he is severely affected by Saturn. Saturn is also the Moon?s final aspect that?s within orb here. I didn?t count Mars here because it?s out of orb. The Moon has just separated from Mercury and is applying to be conjunct with Saturn, after first being sextile with Venus. So perhaps Venus is the other woman and she?s on Virgolass?s mind, as shown by the sextile. In a way that doesn?t matter, as the Moon is about to hit that big old obstacle called Saturn. So, both the cosignificator of the querent and the significator of the boyfriend hit Saturn and that is the headline of this chart.

As Deb pointed out in this other topic, Jupiter retrograde on the cusp on the 3rd house can show that he's on your mind, that you're troubled by thoughts about him and this other woman. Uranus on the cusp of the 7th house shows instability in the relationship.

I also have to strongly protest the notion that the 7th house can be used for relationships that are not defined. The whole point of the house system and of horary is to know who and what we are asking and then find the house that represents them. If you don't know the kind of relationship that you have to the person you?re asking about, then you need to think about what that relationship could be before asking the question. I don?t think anyone in my life, or in anyone?s life is truly undefined. If they are nothing to us, then there is no need for a question. But if they are in our life they are a friend, a lover, an enemy, a boss, a brother or sister and so on. There may be confusion as to what their primary role is and that has to be understood before you do as question. For example, if your boss is also your friend, do you use the 11th or 10th house to represent them? In such a situation, a person would need to be honest whether they are asking a question about work or about a friend. The notion of the 7th house to represent undefined relationships seems to me a modern one, and I think can lead to confusion and error. Again, no one who you ask a question about can be undefined. They are one thing or the other.

I have similar objection against using the 5th house to represent a new relationship. I know that Lee Lehrman uses that but she is about the only one to do so.

But again, I'd strongly recommend using the 7th house and Jupiter as the guy because he is and should be your main concern. This wasn't a question about whether the ex-girlfriend is going to do you serious physical harm; it seems to be a question about how her presence will affect your relationship with him. That she is on your mind and is a concern is understandable, but the current boyfriend is at the heart of the question.

Also notice that the Moon is translating light from Mercury to Saturn, via Venus. Normally we might say that Venus prohibits the conjunct between the Moon and Saturn, but the Moon is already within the orb of Saturn, and I've seen Lilly use this in a similar way in Book II of CA, in the section called "If the Querent Should be Rich or in a Capacity of Substance without Marriage."

I also can't leave out something very important and that is that Mercury is very late in its sign, while the Moon is very new in its sign. That points to changes in the situation, and that Virgolass is at the end of one stage in this question and at the beginning of another. Perhaps that is the ray of light in this chart. Maybe this whole new relationship will be brief and not all that upsetting to Virgolass. Maybe this situation will be a passing one and not one that troubles her for a long time.

thanks for the input mark. Since posting, I've recieved new info. Yes. She is still on his mind, and yes, he does still care about her. They were friends for seven years. And apparently only dated for about a week in that time. But he does still care about her, but he emphatically states that he is not in love with her any more.

As to her sudden entrance back in his life...she might be dying. She has a boyfriend who she lives with and seems to love very much. But she is having surgery in August for a potentially life threatening neurological condition. She seems to be mending fences and reaching out to people she's caused pain. (Also, some of her poor treatment of L. may have been a symptom of her illness)

L. and I had a long talk about this. And yes, I'm still a bit insecure (a problem I will always be battling) and he understands why, but I also am not going to prevent him from being kind to someone who may not live.

So you're right, I'm not troubled by the situation any more. If anything, it was a positive, as we were both able to calmly and rationally discuss a very emotional situation without fighting,and I think our relationship will just grow stronger now. But you're right. She will be in the picture, and the dealing will be unpleasant. But not because she's trying to take him back...because she's very, very sick.