yair and astrojin... thanks!

yair... yes - it does depend on how we define fame... i concede the world is different today..so perhaps this is a different expression of fame.. i too would be at a loss to find it in the chart you posted, although the pof in the 10th seems positive.. it is offset by mars in opposition.. perhaps though jupiter in the 11th and sun in the 9th to the pof help... or is it sun in the 3rd and jupiter in the 5th to mars which help here?? i get bogged down in a myriad of considerations and generally still believe there isn't much fame to this chart you posted.. that is my take! i am not really able to see it in my nephews chart either, although i can see some success in the area of communications given the 2 benefics in the 3rd house with north node and that venus in conjunction with jupiter-north node, rules the 10th... that is the only way i can see it..

astrojin - yes - communication - air and the whole sign equal houses... makes sense!! i was thinking venus as ruler of the midheaven in the 3rd in a conjunction with jupiter and the north node.. pluto is right their too, but not on this trad chart i posted... thanks for your commentary which is always top notch! i especially liked your comments on planets in detriment still functioning but in an alternative way... that was quite good and worth pondering on more.. the parallel on both 10th house rulers conjunct spica is also a great observation if you believe in the usefulness of star data! you make a good case for it here..