Astrojin:

To make it even more specific, we would look to the profected ascendant (Mercury) not only in natal chart but also in the renewed chart i.e. solar revolution (solar return).

In addition, I also take note of the relative house position of the ruler of a profected house.

Example: For a given year, let the profected asc coincides with the 5th house natally. Let the ruler of the 5th house is in the 11th in the natal. 11th is the 7th from the 5th, so 7th house issues are relevant too.

I have been keeping a diary for 4 years and when I looked back with yearly and monthly profections I see many interesting manifestations that correlate with the events.

All of the following seem relevant:

* natal house position of the ruler of the profected house
* natal house position of the profected house
* relative house position of the profected house and its ruler
* natal and relative houses ruled by the lord of the year (and month if it is a montly profection) [in order of importance: sign ruler, exalt ruler and triplicity ruler(s)]

I also noticed in some or maybe many cases some or all meanings attached to a particular ruler or house are manifested. Take for example the 4th house. It is both parents, specifically father, and real estate (home, residence). So that in such cases "which particular meaning of a planet or house" loses its importance somewhat because some or all of it may be manifested. Then the new question becaomes: Which one is going to be manifested when in that year in a narrower scope?

This takes us again to focus on revolutions (solar and lunar) and other techniques to pinpoint the particular event and timing.

Also both whole-sign and Alcabitius houses give good results when used together as suggested by Robert Zoller.

When my profected asc came to the 5th natal house I bought the apartment I live in (2nd from the 4th), I paid some expenses for the medical treatment of my father, I paid for re-decoration of my home and I had some issues related to my children all in the same year.

Astrojin,
Thanks for the quotes also.

Cheers,
Sigma

This principle is violated in case of profections, where we always need to take the cusp ruler first.

Well, the harsh truth is that the principle is not violated ! The planet posited in a sign overules the one which has rulership.

I will not get into any fights with other systems defensors... if you don~t like what I am saying, just don~t use it !
In profections (by sign, not house as Zoller do), if there is a planet in the natal sign, he will be lord of profection IF in the solar return it aspect by sign the Prof sign.
Example, the year 8th has as sign of profection the 8th sign, lets say it is sagitarius. If in natal chart venus is in sagitarius, venus will be lord of profection IF venus, in the solar revolution of the year is aspecting sagitarius by whole sign. If venus is in cancer, she can~t be lord of profection because she is inconjuct the sign profected.
If the natal planet doesn~t hold the profection, see if there is any planet transiting the profected sign, and he will be the lord.
In the last case, if there isn~t any previous lord, you give the lord to the ruler, in the case of sagitarius, it would be Jupiter.
This considerations are from astrologer Stephen Birchfield, according to Mashalah, if the memory doesn~t fail me.
So long.
Yuzuru

I haven't forgotten sigma4, children are back and a bit hectic, with school starting next week, but it is very much on mind and soon on paper then here.
I'm just a wee bit older (a full 45 next month) then.
I need to go through my notes.
But, do remember, especially in such cases as charts you've looked at often (repeat clients, family and close friends or associates) that the "art" in delienation is a practised one.
You cannot fear failure (for you will fail) in prediction (which held me back for years) otherwise you'll just fail to predict at all and miss the moment in which to practise your or any technique of your choosing.
Honestly, practise, practise, practise. It is the way.

I used Horary for years as my practise board so to speak, because I found Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson easy to follow and understand. New-age books frustrated me to no end (though I still bought and read them). Even though she used the 3 outer planets she never relied on one thing, always looking for confirmation and re-confirmation......and this helped me tremendously until I stumbled upon teachings of the traditional ways and begun to understand the deeper or perhaps I should say the underlying reasons to WHY the 7 are said to be this or that, how they aspect each other and behave to each other, who they represent, what they represent, where they can be found......etc.
Sorta like taking Saturn apart, then building him up again and seeing him in questions, natals, mundane.....alone, then in aspect to his enemy the Sun or to Mars his junior adversary, how he differs from him.....how they can or cannot interact through the signs or houses.
sigh, I guess I'd never make a good teacher.
But I sure the hell am gonna try to answer your "damndest" question. Cause I'd like to see it in writing, and doing so will help me understand it better too!

To Yuzuru,

In profections (by sign, not house as Zoller do), if there is a planet in the natal sign, he will be lord of profection IF in the solar return it aspect by sign the Prof sign.

This approach seems to accord with my questioning and what follows with solar return does seem a complementary to what I learned from R.Zoller, which he states as some astrologers' practice but he himself goes with the profections of the natal only.

W.Lilly also uses it in his CA Vol.3 almost the way R.Zoller teaches. He takes the ruler of the profected house as the "lord of the year" and looks to its natal and profectional house placement. However he also refers to the solar revolution if my memory doesn't fail me.

Could you give the source of your approach?
Did you also compare your method to the others?

I feel that the two approaches should not be taken as rivals but as complementing each other. I usually like reconciliations when possible

Thanks,
Sigma

Sigma

If my approach isn?t in some way irrelevant for the subject (and I hope it is useful), I would like to give a different perspective over the issue of profectio versus natal chart or solar return.

So I would first establish a rule. A priori I want to say that this rule is in some way inspired by the work of Placido Titi, Coelestis Philosophia.
The rule would sounds like this: an element (a planet in principal, but also a lot/Arabic part, or a house) has the virtue to determine a particular event only if it is in titled in some way and by something with this aptitude.
Conclusion: no potential no significance for the event.

After giving this rule I would like to give also a small example. For example we have profectio of Mars over natal Jupiter. Now the question would be: is in some way relevant Jupiter for the issues governed by Mars? If it is, how? And if we find the role of Jupiter in some future event signified by profectio of Mars, how thing are going to happen (in other words, ultimate prediction)? Of course the rule is mainly relevant for the first question, for the second and the third things become more complicated. If in the natal chart Jupiter is in trine with the Mars for example, than Jupiter has the virtue to determine in some way the future events.
Things happen, I think, similar in the case of profectio versus solar return, or primary direction versus natal chart, or transit versus natal chart (even if transits are more like clocks).

In the end, what is after all the relevance for this topic of this rule?
Well, I think that if we first take in consideration this rule, we wouldn?t be forced to choose between position and rulership, or at least it would be easier.