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2 by Ouranos
Martin,

Are you talking about the book of Robert Zoller on the Parts? Does he mention any author from the past?
Any name that come to mind from an author of the 15th century?

My own experience with the Part of Sickness is that it can mean many different things (taken from Alfred Witte), like periodic work, sickness, interruption, separation, end of action and finally death.
And the most convincing examples will be found by looking at the midpoint structures in the 45d Wheel, where you can match it with any planet or midpoint found there.
Examples from my collection
MO = MA/SA - married to a wife constantly sick
SU/JU = MA/SA - a person devoid of physical happiness
VE = MA/SA - miscarriage
A/M = MA/SA - constantly fighting to find an equilibrium between personal and social life.

As such, the House position is secondary. What is more important is the relationship to the personal points of the chart (ASC, MC, SU and MO)

Best to you,
Ouranos
Blessings!

3 by Martin Gansten
No, I am not talking about Zoller or any modern author. I am helping someone edit an actual Latin manuscript that contains a list of results for this Lot in different houses, and because most of the material in the manuscript is derived from standard textbooks (such as Latin translations of ar-Rij??l, al-Qabīṣī, ibn Ezra, etc.), I'm assuming that this list, too, has been borrowed from somewhere. I thought someone else here might recognize it.
https://astrology.martingansten.com/

4 by Ouranos
One book who has a lot of old references 'History of Western Astrology' by S.J.A Tester, The Boydell Press, 1987

In Montreal, someone did a memoir on Pèlerin de Prusse 'Le Livret des elections universelles des 12 maisons' with the relationship of the Parts with each House. His book is from the 14th century.
https://papyrus.bib.umontreal.ca/xmlui/ ... 1866/11978
Floriane Aline Gaignard
One copy of the book of Pèlerin de Prusse is kept in Saint John's College in Oxford.

Other references can be found in the book 'Commentaries' of Junctin de Florence who collected from a hundred authors starting from the 15th century.

Not sure if this might be helpful in your search.
Blessings!

5 by Martin Gansten
Thanks, but no, not really: I was wondering if anyone remembered seeing such a list in a primary source (even if a translated one), such as the various manuals of astrology that were made available in print from the end of the 15th century.

Connecting the Lots/Parts with particular houses is a common practice (the Lot of Illness, obviously, is considered to belong to the 6th house). Lists detailing the results of a particular Lot falling in the 12 houses, however, are not.
https://astrology.martingansten.com/

7 by Eric L
I hope this reply isn't too late! The lots have become a pet topic of mine, and the main source I know of describing lots in houses was written by M??sh??'all??h. A Latin MS edition attributed to Ptolemy can be found here, pp 99r-103v: https://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Pal.lat.1892# . Also, Benjamin Dykes translated the Arabic version embedded in Sahl's Nativities with reference to the Latin.

9 by Eric L
Martin Gansten wrote:Thank you, Eric, that's very helpful -- just the sort of information I was looking for!

As you take a special interest in the lots, have you perhaps written anything on them yourself?
Quite a lot, in fact! Sorry, I couldn't resist. I wrote a very lengthy compilation of every natal/general lot available in English, cross-referencing manuscripts and critical editions where possible (I don't speak the relevant languages but I can read the letters and recognize the difference between planet names). It's in document format but open to perpetual revision: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dfcBaZ ... sp=sharing

My blog (see signature) has a few articles as well, mostly analyzing and trying to pare down the lengthy list in the Great Introduction. The biggest realization is the Lot of Hope, so popular in the Medieval lists, is very likely the result of a scribal error!

Lastly, I have an article in the works organizing and comparing the five Byzantine lot lists translated by Horoi Project - right now my paper only covers the 3 lists included in the critical edition of Olympiodorus as translated by Greenbaum and Holden and does not necessarily reflect my current understanding of the texts. At some point I suppose I'll update my main survey of lots so that my treatment of the matter is consistent and up-to date.
https://kleroi.wordpress.com

10 by Martin Gansten
Eric L wrote:Quite a lot, in fact! Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Absolutely no need to! That looks a wonderful resource, Eric; thank you very much for sharing it. I'll be travelling over the next few days, but I do look forward to delving into this as soon as time permits.

You may or may not be aware of my work on the medieval transmission of Perso-Arabic astrology, including the lots, to India. (The Sanskrit word for them is sahama, from the Arabic sahm.) In case it interests you, there is a bit on the lots on pp. 96-99 in this paper (where I had a good deal of help from Levente László with that section):
https://doi.org/10.1163/25425552-12340005

Also, the entire Chapter 4 of this book is dedicated to the lots:
https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004433717
https://astrology.martingansten.com/

11 by Ouranos
Very interesting research Eric!

It is obvious that the calculation of the Lots took into account the Sect, Day and Night.
Have you found other elements that would change the calculations in earlier writings? For example:
- Planets under the sunbeams (one example mentioned)
- Angular
- Triplicities
- Oriental vs Occidental
---------------
If I was to do a research on the Lots, I would start with when the 2 planets in the formula are in conjunction for the + and - would put the Lot at the ASC. Example
The Lot of the ASC or Lot of Life
ASC + SA – JU Day
ASC + JU – SA Night

Lot of ASC or Life is taken from Saturn and Jupiter; because they are the highest and farthest, and signify the durability of life coupled with the ASC the body and life. And this Lot signify the natural life in good health and this Lot well configured is good fortune, health and joy of the soul.

Looking back at the JU/SA conjunction in July 1981 in the 5th degree of Libra sextile the Sun in Leo, can we say that this generation (with a well placed ASC in regard to this Lot) will carry all the good fortune, health and joy of the soul associated with this Lot?

Very good contribution Eric,

Ouranos
Blessings!

12 by Eric L
Martin Gansten wrote:
You may or may not be aware of my work on the medieval transmission of Perso-Arabic astrology, including the lots, to India. (The Sanskrit word for them is sahama, from the Arabic sahm.) In case it interests you, there is a bit on the lots on pp. 96-99 in this paper (where I had a good deal of help from Levente László with that section):
https://doi.org/10.1163/25425552-12340005

Also, the entire Chapter 4 of this book is dedicated to the lots:
https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004433717
Yes, I have looked at both, and Levente very kindly shared the research with me. I don't think I can add much to his detailed analysis of Samarasiṃha's list, although the sources he gave you proved of great interest. Comparing the remaining lots given by Balabhadra to the Arabic corpus has been on my to do list, although I can say with certainty that I've never seen the Lot of Camels anywhere else!
Ouranos wrote:Have you found other elements that would change the calculations in earlier writings? For example:
- Planets under the sunbeams (one example mentioned)
- Angular
- Triplicities
- Oriental vs Occidental
As a rule only sect matters. There are two lots which we are told to always count in zodiacal order by the shortest arc - the Lot of Basis in Valens (other authors ignore or did not inherit this rule) and the Lot of Children in Firmicus, which is unknown elsewhere. Valens also wants us to calculate the Lot of the Releaser (Hyleg) using the next New Moon for Full Moon births, but personally including a post natal factor seems a bridge too far for me.
Ouranos wrote:Looking back at the JU/SA conjunction in July 1981 in the 5th degree of Libra sextile the Sun in Leo, can we say that this generation (with a well placed ASC in regard to this Lot) will carry all the good fortune, health and joy of the soul associated with this Lot?
I don't think that lot is really appropriate for mundane analysis. The mundane tradition has its own set of lots suited for regions and nations, although I am sure the Lot of Fortune was used as well. It's a bit like putting the Lot of Onions (yes, there is one!) in a natal chart.
https://kleroi.wordpress.com
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