what happened 600 years ago can and does still happen today...some people think we have collectively risen above hubris... i don't share that view...

"Copernicus 1473-1543, Galileo Galilei, 1564-1642. Giordano Bruno, 1548-1600

Copernicus, by natural observation, and Galileo, by telescopic observation, were able to determine that Earth moved around the sun, not, as was the fully accepted and strict dogma of the day, that Earth was the centre of the Universe. Dē revolutionibus orbium coelestium was only published after the death of Copernicus. He was reluctant to publish ideas he knew would be met with incomprehension. Galileo’s fate for advancing his discoveries by telescopic observation were trial and house imprisonment for life. For Giordano Bruno, astrological discovery, curiosity and new knowledge of the ‘heavens’ was rewarded with execution by immolation. Of course, Bruno was a true lunatic. He speculated that the stars were like the Sun, and might have planets revolving around them. The societies of these scientists were not ready for new scientific revelations, which overturned accepted dogma and authority. Today, are we any different?"

there are a wide variety of topics that i think apply here, and i am not just talking house systems.... cheers james

addendum... fact checker.... where was fact checker back then?? lol..

BREAKING NEWS: Nicolaus Copernicus, Rogue Astronomer Falsely Claims Earth Not Centre of Universe.
It is not easy to break down dogma and conventional ideas.

Sorry, is it not just a matter of ones oppinion or ones point of view?

Each movement can only be described relativly to another item which is supposed to stand still. So it is not wrong to say the Sun revolves around earth. Theoretically you are able to take the Moon as point of rest and describe the entire universe according to her.

And the orbits of the planets of our solar system are much more beautiful if you set the earth as stationary reverence point.

Georgius I happen to incline towards your view, but I think it misses the point of James' post

hi Georgius

i think you are right.. but i think what i am getting at is that when we allow any apparent authority to tell us what is or isn't - we run into trouble... then it was the church that dictated what was acceptable to think or not.. now it is fact checker and arbitrary extensions of the gov't or intel agencies... or science.... i really don't think things are all black and white... thanks for chiming in!