Does anyone have a time for this train crash on 1/3/2023 in Larissa, north of Athens?

hey sinbad - i love that name.. reminds me of the sailor, lol.. did i say that already?

wiki is giving the time as 23:21 eet... cheers james

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempi_train_crash

here is the chart for this event.. sidereal chart using krishnamurti ayanamsa..



ascendant axis and nodal axis together... ascendant axis at the direct midpoint of uranus-rahu, or north node.. rahu -north node ruler is mars in taurus in the 8th whole sign house.. mars rules over the 2nd and 7th houses... there is a name for these houses in indian astrology but indian astrology books are notorius for not having an index and i will be danged if i can find it... these houses are said to be associated with death though, so that is what i am trying to communicate here... the chart is heavily western hemisphere oriented with ketu rising suggesting a fated type chart and dynamic at the time.... those are quick thoughts off the chart.. my condolences to those directly involved..

addedum - LIBRA ASCENDANT
Here Mars have lordship over both 2nd and 7th house and is the only Maraka planet for them. Mars shouldn't be afflicted here especially from Jupiter.

look up maraka houses in indian astrology for more info if interested..

here is another observation... the ascendant ruler venus is conjunct the 6th house ruler jupiter... 6th house topic is one which includes the issue of accidents.. jupiter also rules the 3rd house of travel in this chart..

here is another one... the 150 aspect involving ascendant with the venus/jupiter conjunction is also fairly exact.. again - this aspect is associated with the idea of accidents among other issues - health and etc. etc..

and yes - it is all hindsight that would be virtually impossible to see or avoid beforehand.... accidents happen unfortunately..

Thanks James, that is interesting

Looking at an event chart for the time you gave, which I will try to post, I note the following
western hemisphere facing chart, Merc (air) opp MC (fire); Uranus (air) opp MC (fire); anaretic Pluto in 3rd house; Mars Sq Sun

Had I not known what happened, I would have thought 'explosion?'

Tragic event.

sinbad

yes - tragic event on all accounts.. i like your use of the elements and trying to incorporate them into a read on the chart.. i think it is difficult to do that however... mind you - i use midpoints and a lot of astrologers are ambivalent to them, so to each their own! in looking at the chart again the descendant degree is very close to the moon - neptune square midpoint... clearly there was some confusion and lack of clarity that led to this accident... perhaps this square of moon to neptune also played into it? cheers james

https://tinypic.host/images/2023/03/04/Larisa.png

Here is the chart, I hope.

Am not very advanced, I am afraid but am interested in all interpretations.

On the event chart I post, Nept sq Mars, if I am not mistaken. This corroborates your feeling that there was confusion, leading to an accident. Negligence?

The moon was waxing gibbous, James, do you think this has any impact? (One aspect is that there is a need to pay attention to detail) But I am not sure whether this is relevant.

I have not read the details of how this might have happened.

Comments welcome

hi sinbad

the chart looks good! it is different then the one i have shared only because it we are using different zodiacs - sidereal and tropical, but yes - looks good!

correction - i see you have the wrong date - one day out - the event happened on feb 28th, not march 1st as is shown in the data on your chart... since i am noticing this - this is probably the most important thing to talk about - data.. if you don't have good data, you will need to have it or any conclusions you make off wrong data will be very nebulous at best!

i think the first thing you have to acknowledge is all sorts of things happen in life... astrology is not able to explain them beforehand, so much as afterwards! now maybe someone who is really good at astrology can take an individual chart and make some pretty good predictions off it, or even better, i think astrologers do have pretty good success with horary astrology... with mundane astrology, i am not so sure...

but back to the chart and deciphering it - this is where you are going to have to develop a set of approaches you try on all the different charts to see what you think works the best... the neptune-mars square is 4 or 5 degrees out of being exact... it could be factored in here, but i am mostly drawn to closer type aspects myself... but this is just my preference and you have to decide what works for you.. as for the gibbous moon - generally a waxing moon is viewed favourably, so i would probably not focus on that, unless it was somehow tied into something else of importance in the chart.. now the sun-moon relationship is very important, so i don't want to underestimate its importance, though but not in this case as i see it.. keep on working with more charts and try to get a feel for what seems most relevant and what isn't... that is all i have been doing the past 40 or more years! cheers james

Thanks, will start again with right date.. have now heard that most of the victims were students from Thessaloniki university...

Here is the amended chart
https://tinypic.host/images/2023/03/06/Larisa-2.png

Mercury opp MC (rather telling for a rail accident, I thought)

Sun sq Mars sq Neptune sq Moon (a rather uneasy string of squares, like a long string of responsibility for wrong decisions)

Uranus sq MC (disruption and loss of life)

Opp and sq as per Astrodienst calculations.

"I managed to get out and went to the front, the train was bent at a 90 degree angle, half of it was hanging over the cliff burning,"

Help with interpreting the chart welcome.

here is marjorie orrs take on this sad event, with a bit more details on the circumstances...

marjorie is using a time that is 10 minutes later and not in accordance with wikipedia link and data that i shared up top...

https://star4cast.com/greece-train-cras ... al-change/

I Note that M Orr (born 9.9.1944) is using thessaloniki as a place of the event, rather than Larisa. I am not sure which 'recent solar eclipse' she is referring to - there was a partial solar eclipse on 26 October 2022 and there will be one on 20 April 2023, so doubtful whether this impacts in this case.

Disasters do not always conveniently happen at the time of eclipses, or near eclipses.

In older books, Greece is listed as governed by Capricorn. Don't know whether this should be taken into account when reading the event chart.

hi sinbad

there is no one way to look at all this but thessaloniki is definitely not where the event happened, and 23:31 is not the time given for the event either - and that is what marjorie is using... considering any chart for greece in this case is valid, as it is a national tragedy... i didn't look closely at marjories astro analysis, but eclipse data is relevant as i see it... and of course this is one of the many reasons i have yammered on about the importance of the nodal axis, as this is where all the eclipses take place - along the nodal axis, or in the vicinity of the nodal axis...

astrologers have a general knack for making connections in any number of ways.. whether they have a lot of merit is subject to debate! cheers james

Thanks for your reply. Which solar eclipse data is relevant in this case?

hi sinbad

i will see if i can find some time today to respond to your curiousity on this... often times it is the eclipse data to a chart one would have for the country, that i am used to considering, but i can look back and see if something stands out here.. as i said - the nodal axis takes on greater importance because of its connection to the eclipse cycle.. as we see in the chart, the nodal axis is in a type of conjunction with the ascendant axis... i will look later...