marjorie orr has a post up on this topic..

https://star4cast.com/banks-at-risk-wil ... nevitable/

according to nic campion there are a couple of charts for switzerland, but the one most swiss astrologers use is the one for sept 12 1848, 11:12 am LMT... orr's chart is using 12:55pm - not sure why.. the one below is for 11:12am local mean time.. the chart is in sidereal zodiac.. i have 29 libra 48;44" as the rising sign or lagna.. the chart presents some interesting predicaments for me astrologically! mostly they revolve around different house systems and the yogas you do or don't arrive at here... ordinarily a relationship between the 9th and 10th house lords is considered very favourable in indian astrology... another positive yoga is a relationship between the first and 10th house rulers... these are called raja yogas.. another one would be the 4th and 9th house rulers connecting... with late libra rising using whole houses we get a 4/9 raja yoga with saturn/mercury in an opposition ruling over these houses.. placidus houses will give you a raja yoga with the 9th and 10th house rulers - moon/sun in opposition.. its not a raja yoga, but bringing the 1st and 2nd house rulers together would seem to suggest a strength in financial matters if you think of the 2nd house having to do with money... oh and finally - 1st and 9th house rulers using whole house signs would bring venus and mercury together - 1/9 houses and again this is a raja yoga!



the chart is a type of marc edmund jones seesaw chart which makes sense and forces more objectivity into the mix trying to balance the opposite energies.. switzerland is seen as a conservative type of country, trying to maintain a type of nuetrality and being the home for a number of banking institutions, some of them established as a part of international agreements - bank of international settlements being the first one that comes to mind.. it was established via an intergovernmental agreement between Germany, Belgium, France, the United Kingdom, Italy, Japan, the United States, and Switzerland. It opened its doors in Basel, Switzerland, on 17 May 1930.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_for_ ... ettlements

would be good to take a look at this chart, although i wonder if there is a specific time for the signing of this agreement.. there is a lot of interesting history on this, found on that wikipedia page.. for example - "The 1944 Bretton Woods Conference recommended the "liquidation of the Bank for International Settlements at the earliest possible moment". This resulted in the BIS being the subject of a disagreement between the U.S. and British delegations." read the article for more details..

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although i haven't posted on the topic of the silicon valley bank -svb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley_Bank - i have been following it and think it is another moment where the financial dynamics of 2008, and more broadly the financial world itself, raises its ugly head.. i say that because i view the world financial system at this point as one big financial ponzi scheme.. but regardless of that - it seems the fallout from the collapse of svb has resulted in some other serious girations which directly involve switzerland and a bank centered in switzerland - credit suisse..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_Suisse

marjories post is worth considering, as it includes a day chart for credit suisse, a chart for the bank of switzerland and a nataional chart - the same one i am using, except a time that is different -i know not the basis for her time, but it doesn't jive with nic campions commentary as expressed in his book of world horoscopes...

i will make a post on the transit data and etc to the national chart i am using for switzerland in the next day or two.. cheers james

james_m wrote: according to nic campion there are a couple of charts for switzerland, but the one most swiss astrologers use is the one for sept 12 1848, 11:12 am LMT... orr's chart is using 12:55pm - not sure why.. the one below is for 11:12am local mean time.. the chart is in sidereal zodiac.. i have 29 libra 48;44" as the rising sign or lagna..

Sidereally speaking, this chart being in the 29th degree of Libra I would really want to be sure of the time for this chart. Campion gives little or no source for the time other than most Swiss astrologers. His footnote states (World Horoscopes, page 644, footnote 1082) that he has found no documentary evidence for this time. It would take some study to verify this chart. Personally I have done no work with it myself so can offer no help other than I would approach it caution.

Maybe better is Astrodatabank that has modified their given time to 12:55, see their biography and source notes: https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Na ... rland_1848
This is why M Orr is using this time I would bet and there are other reasons this chart may fit Switzerland better, like exalted Jupiter in the 9th for example.
~AJ

thanks aj! that is very helpful and explains why orr is using this time... here is the corrected chart below... keep in mind - 1255pm is also a rounded off time, so not perfectly accurate, but at least it moves away from the last degree of libra rising sidereally dilemma...

i wonder why adb uses the time of 1250pm in the chart itself on adb?? here is the quote in the source notes -"Modified to 12:50 after publication of Beatrice Ganz' book Das Horoskop der Schweiz where she arrives at a slightly different conclusion."

below is a chart for 1250pm in sidereal..



in this chart, non of the raja yogas hold, unless one wants to be creative with different house systems... perhaps the 1/10 house rulers are in a raja yoga here if one uses the actual midheaven degree as the midheaven, as opposed to wsh... 9/10 house rulers create a raja yoga if one uses leo as the 10th house cusp.... the 2nd house ruler - jupiter - is exalted and in the 9th house which would be favourable for finances - again given everything i have discussed so far.. ... also both the 10th house rulers - whether whole sign house, or any other system using the midheaven degree has the ruler in dignity - sun and mercury, perhaps explaining some of switzerlands status as a type of 'neutral' player on the world stage...

james_m wrote:i wonder why adb uses the time of 1250pm in the chart itself on adb?? here is the quote in the source notes -"Modified to 12:50 after publication of Beatrice Ganz' book Das Horoskop der Schweiz where she arrives at a slightly different conclusion."

I noticed that myself and thought it a bit enigmatic, but some minutes before 1 pm is the takeaway.
~AJ

James:
For this chart, 12:50pm, September 12, 1848 at Berne, with Krishnamurti ayanamsa I cast the Ascendant as 18Sc29 and the MC 12Vi51.

Most of the following you noted but I thought to add in a few other comments... for a Scorpio ascendant the Moon and the Sun form a Raja yoga if connected, the Moon is opposite the Sun. The Sun is very powerful because of this aspect but also is in its own sign conjoined with the NN and has directional strength too.

Jupiter is well placed in the 9th and exalted but also very closely aspects the Ascendant. In Indian astrology the 9th house and 2nd house has a lot to do with international treaties, diplomacy and relationships with neighbors while Jupiter is significator diplomatic attaches, wealth, prosperity, banking, courts etc...
Natally Ketu is exactly afflicted by Saturn in opposition to the Sun. This may have a lot to due with Switzerland's ability to remain neutral over so many wars etc.

Currently according to this chart Switzerland has just entered the main and subperiod of the sudden and inflammatory SN. The transiting SN is in the 12th house of mishaps, loss and expenses. Initiatives, infrastructure, peace and communal harmony and position in the world is under a lot of stress during this dasha.

There's always more to flush out but that's all I can glean building on your initial post and keep the discussion moving a bit I hope.
~AJ

thanks aj! those are great additional comments, and i don't have solar fire running here to see what the dasa period is at the moment... perhaps this explains some of the reason for the cascade effect on banking dynamics and specifically credit suisse here...

i think i was using lmt and forgot to change the setting when i redid the chart... here is the 1250pm chart with 18 scorpio rising.. thanks for noticing this as well.. it must mean you are actually looking at these charts!

regarding the bank merger of credit suisse and usb, i was able to get a response from matthew allen with swissinfo on the exact time it was announced.. it sounds rounded off, but here is his response to me...

"Hi James, the announcement was made at 19.30 CET on Sunday at the parliamentary press centre in Bern.

I hope that answers your questions.

Best regards

Matt"

below is the chart for this moment - sidereal and krishnamurti ayanamsa...



clearly mercury and jupiter are outstanding considerations in emphasis in this chart... as ruler of the ascendant and midheaven and mars which in turns rules the 3/8 houses, mercury in fall in pisces speaks of some of the challenges in this merger... jupiter as ruler of 4/7 houses and dignified is more favourable.... in indian astrology a benefic ruling over a house on the angle is not considered as positive as a malefic... i am not sure of the logic of this as i am still trying to understand the concept more fully.... the ruler of the 9th is always important.. in this case it is venus in its fall in aries in the 8th... it would seem that usb is inheriting a situation here that is not al that pretty.. hard to know, as all of the details will most remain hidden...

the chart is western hemisphere emphasis.. in fact all the planets are in the west which aligns with the idea that this is very much a fated type of outcome that is the best of a bad situation for the banking system more generally.. it is the last phase of the moon as seen in the parf of fortune which happens to conjoin ketu in the 2nd house... all of this implies the same type of dynamics -fated and the result of past actions, but now having bearing on the 2nd house of the chart which again is about finances... of course the nodal energies are like hidden energies - ketu especially as i understand it... at the same time rahu in the 8th in conjunction with venus suggests some special abilities to rise to the challenges.. i am not sure how much it is altered unfavourably due venus's position in aries here... it would be interesting to compare this chart to the charts we have for switzerland and etc.. perhaps i can get to commenting on that in the near future...

orisis

as i see it, back-filling astrological theories to make them appear relevant and valid, is a popular past time of astrologers... it think it is much harder to predict moving forward..

the financial crisis in the form of these banks collapsing now, is hard to predict, but easy to see in a generalized way if one looks closely at the financial system itself which is one big ponzi scheme... at some point it breaks down.. knowing the timing is the hard part... no astrologers that i know were predicting the financial crisis of 2008.. maybe there was someone..

i am reminded of that story of those blind people groping the elephant from different places, trying to make out what it was... they came up with all sorts of theories... at this point we are witnessing a number of world events, while groping on these isolated events astrologically to try to understand what i think is happening on a much bigger and broader level...call it planetary, as opposed to localized, although we can only see the events in a localized context.... i think all these events happening on the planet today have finances and the financial world at their core... so much of what is happening today is based on money... who gets to control it and who gets to shut out others? these types of dynamics are happening, but all we see is the specific event of a bank such as credit suise, or the silicon valley bank caving in... most people are generally not thinking of how this reflects on the wider financial world we live in.. in this regard, i think the saturn-jupiter cycle, and the coincidence of the jupiter-saturn-pluto cycle of 2020 is quite relevant to all this... but how to pull it all together is much more difficult...