https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Macron,_Emmanuel

what i find amazing about macrons chart is how 5 of the 7 planets are in bad shape celestially... the sun and moon are free of this, but all the others - mercury, venus, mars, jupiter and saturn are all in fall in the chart... chart is shown below..



there is probably some indian yoga that addresses this, but i am not familiar with it at this moment... now, when assessing the strength of a planet, the different vargas ( harmonic or divisional charts ) are also considered... i have not looked at this as i need to open my laptop to do this... regardless - many of the planets in the chart are in bad shape... he shares this in common with another world leader at the moment - zelenksy... zelenskys chart is very similar, but the moon offsets it, by being in its own sign of cancer, and close to an angle... zelenskys chart is a mixed bag with jupiter rising and the deflating neptune on the descendant. see the chart below..



here is an adb link for the details..
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ze ... _Volodymyr

regarding macrons chart, one sees the transit of pluto on his ascendant at present... this implies a break down and shattering of his public persona... whether he is the caterpillar that morphs into a butterfly here, or something trans-formative remains to be seen.. it would seem the public is especially unhappy with him at this point.... perhaps some of this is explained by the natal set up of moon in square to a 7th house mars with moon ruling the 7th, while mars rules the 4th... mutual reception with 2 planets in there fall is not considered a good thing by all astrologers... in fact - perhaps it is just the opposite..

uranus and rahu have moved away from the degree of his moon, but as we see in the solar return that applies this year -they are very much a part of the picture.. in fact - macron has a moon opp uranus natally, while uranus has been making an opposition to his own natal uranus position.. below is a chart of the dec 21, 2022 solar return..



what we see in this chart is leo rising - which falls in the 8th whole sign from his cap rising chart, and which also includes the position of saturn in leo... generally the ascendant landing in the 8th sign is considered more difficult by all barometers and especially so if a malefic is in the same sign.. the 3 planets closest to the angles of the 2022 sr chart are neptune, mars and moon... both mars and moon are in fall in this chart and in opposition along the midheaven axis, again emphasizing the hostility he must feel from the public at this time. perhaps this is offset some as it is a nocturnal chart.

the midheaven axis is the reverse of what it is in his natal chart.. the sr ic in fact lands on his natal neptune position, so this again is a double whammy from neptune by being in the 10th house of his natal chart, and having neptune conjunct the descendant in the 2022 sr chart... i characterize this as too much neptune being a deflating, or humiliating and defeating set up...

to make matters worse - a women is being publicly charged for saying some negative things about him on facebook... one has got to love facebook for various reasons, but i am sure this isn't one of them!!

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/2 ... n-facebook

as france 24 says - this is a grassroots movement that is challenging the executive power in the name of democracy and freedom of speech...

https://www.france24.com/en/video/20230 ... -of-speech

i am not sure how macron fairs in all of this, but i see the chances of him being elected again as slim to none at this point... as i see it both macron and zelensky are the corporations puppets, fulfilling an agenda of little or no value to the people of their respective countries... they are however of great benefit to the corporate power that continues to be in control of things here - however shaky this is..

i will have to look at the solar arc directions for macron to add another layer of astro analysis to this dismal picture i make of him here...

Yes you are right.
Macron will not be reelected and doing a 3rd term,
since it is against the constitution in France.
So this IS Macrons last term.
And therefore probably the reason for him daring to instigate such an impopular reform that have caused such fierce opposition and revolution vibe in France at the moment.

thanks stefan,

that might explain why the corporate media isn't running to his support.. they are getting ready to wheel out the next corporate shill to lead the masses in dumbocracy and freedumb..

i just realized both macron and zelensky are both 45 years old and only 1 month apart in terms of their birthdates.. this has always been a problem for me when i think of using solar arc directions... on a 90 degree wheel - 45 is 1/2 way around... it creates the conundrum of how does one process these symbolic predictive tools when they have certain glitches like this?? 1 degree per year has a nice rhythm and symbolism to it... it is complicated by my emphasis of looking at hard angles to see where the action is..

i suppose this is where another technique can be useful! dasas, lol... they don't share the same dasas - which i will get to in a minute...

back to yogas! they both have sun surrounded by venus- mercury - a common enough set up in a lot of charts and they both are born in the day with more emphasis on the position of the sun in a way.... this is called a shubha-katari.... it is considered positive and favourable.. maybe this particular yoga has helped to lend the superficial charm manifest in both of these figures... i am not sure how this yoga works out when the planets mercury and venus are in their fall...

about the dasa period for macron - rahu/venus from dec 2020... rahu is conjunct pluto in the 9th while venus is conjunct neptune in the 11th.. rahu - venus are in a sextile relationship, but regardless this has been a difficult 4 or 5 years for macron with the yellow vest movement into covid and now this... i don't feel sorry for the guy and know he will be getting some sort of golden handshake regardless and at a fairly young age too...

as for zelensky dasas - moon/saturn from 19th aug 2022... moon is favourable in his chart which helps matters, although i suppose one could argue the fact the moon is caught between mars and saturn would be the opposite of the shubha katari yoga and what is called a papkarati yoga here.... saturn on the other hand is in the 4th in its fall and both planets are down at the nadir of the chart, hidden from sight.. this dasa lasts until 19th march 2024 when moon/mercury takes over..

the 120 year dasas are very different for the 2 of them.. i wonder what yogini dasas show?

Hey James: I've cherry picked some of your posts above that I had some thoughts on.
First a bit of a digression, you are familiar with Macron's bio but for those who are not, Macron was a unknown, a centrist and former investment banker. At school he studied philosophy and then went on to work in finance. He did manage to attend the prestigious Ecole Nationale d’Administration (ENA) and joined Socialist Francois Hollande’s entourage just at the right time before the future president emerged as favorite to win his party’s nomination. In 2012, Macron became an adviser to President Hollande and was appointed Minister of Economy, Industry, and Digital Affairs in 2012. At least to the public Macron often disagreed with Hollande and resigned in only to be reappointed some months later by Hollande. In 2016, Macron resigned from his government position to form his own political party, En Marche!, which focused on centrist policies and promoting European unity. He won the 2017 French presidential election at the age of 39, defeating far-right candidate Marine Le Pen.

james_m wrote:what i find amazing about macrons chart is how 5 of the 7 planets are in bad shape celestially... the sun and moon are free of this, but all the others - mercury, venus, mars, jupiter and saturn are all in fall in the chart...
there is probably some indian yoga that addresses this, but i am not familiar with it at this moment... now, when assessing the strength of a planet, the different vargas ( harmonic or divisional charts ) are also considered... i have not looked at this as i need to open my laptop to do this... regardless - many of the planets in the chart are in bad shape...

At first glance his horoscope does seem rather unremarkable for one that has ascended so high politically. Everyone's chart has a mix of good and bad yogas and many yogas are extremely common.

regarding macrons chart, one sees the transit of pluto on his ascendant at present... this implies a break down and shattering of his public persona... whether he is the caterpillar that morphs into a butterfly here, or something trans-formative remains to be seen.. it would seem the public is especially unhappy with him at this point.... perhaps some of this is explained by the natal set up of moon in square to a 7th house mars with moon ruling the 7th, while mars rules the 4th... mutual reception with 2 planets in there fall is not considered a good thing by all astrologers... in fact - perhaps it is just the opposite..

The setup is with Moon and Mars in Macron's chart is complex, there is a lot of simultaneous things going on yoga-wise. The first is known as Maha-Parivartana Yoga and promises wealth, status and physical enjoyments, plus beneficial influences from the houses involved. It is just a bit more than a exchange of signs but the 4th lord exchanges houses with the 7th lord. This yoga promises wealth, status and physical enjoyments, plus beneficial influences from the houses involved. It actually doubles because Mars also rules the 11th house.

I know your next question, what about neecha (fallen) in Cancer? This is a situation of neechabhanga, or cancellation of debilitation. In Macron's case with what is essentially a double Maha-Parivartana yoga Mars and the Moon are very powerful.
[/quote]

back to yogas! they both have sun surrounded by venus- mercury - a common enough set up in a lot of charts and they both are born in the day with more emphasis on the position of the sun in a way.... this is called a shubha-katari.... it is considered positive and favourable.. maybe this particular yoga has helped to lend the superficial charm manifest in both of these figures... i am not sure how this yoga works out when the planets mercury and venus are in their fall...

Yes, you are right, this is a very common yoga yet does have influence.
Mostly in Indian astrology planets in detriment as a concept is not recognized, well at least in the same way as the west. Often, not always, a planet in its detriment is in an enemies sign, so is considered not to do so well. It's there, just not as defined in the west.
Mercury and the Sun produce Surya-Buddh Yoga and this is favorable and strengthening.
Mercury and Jupiter exchange signs so this is strengthening.
Also, many of the planets in detriment are very close the the bhava madhya so this helps gains them some strength.

Venus is well placed but combust in a enemies sign and weakened being in late degrees. The 10th house is saved though by its' dispositer Mars being strong and occupied by Uranus in exact opposition with the Moon and also in Jupiter's Star.

The thing I can't figure out is the exact aspect from Ketu to Mars. Usually this can be pretty destructive to Mars' significations and the houses it rules. Yet, they are both in Mercury's Star, so an exchange of Nakshatras is going on here as well. The configuration would give a very mixed or even polarizing effect I should think. A well written biography of Macron might help to figure this the way this plays out in his life.

Anyway this is just some thoughts on Macron's chart, by no means have we covered everything, their are also some deep shadows and mixed factors too, like in any horoscope.

thanks aj!

much appreciated.... your more nuanced view on all of this with the inclusion of nakshatras and their rulers is a step beyond my present level of interpretative abilities!! it is going to take me a while to get their...

thanks for giving a quick overview on macrons past for anyone who is unfamiliar with his quick rise to the halls of political power... in case anyone was wondering how that magical act happened, think of the importance of connections... and what are these in astrological terms?? the 3 houses - associated with air - 3, 7 and 11... that is what i think of immediately, although perhaps one could say our connections to family - 4th house - also have great bearing on this... thus the importance of these houses and the rulers associated with them are very relevant to macrons political rise in power.. i am sure the same can be said for zelensky as well..

there is an article behind a financial times paywall which goes into the important connection of macrons, but in the absence of access to this, here is an article that also covers it quite well.. https://southfront.org/emmanuel-macron- ... of-france/

using whole houses and acknowledging that the midheaven lands in the 11th of the whole sign houses, the importance of mars in the 7th, ruling over the 11th/midheaven, seems key to understanding some of this astrologically..

my understanding of mutual reception is that mars in cancer in the 7th, ruled by moon in aries in the 4th whole sign houses - is an example of this... but this term that aj uses -
Maha Parivartana Yoga - is an extension of the parivartana yoga which i have come to understand as the same as mutual reception in western astrology... it seems the Maha addition alters the concept somewhat... here is a link that summarizes it for me and others who are interested.. - https://www.omastrology.com/indian-vedi ... tana-yoga/

does that link do this special set up justice aj? it seems it would take a lifetime to fully appreciate all the possible yogas that indian astrology has developed over the course of history.. perhaps this is why your earlier comment - "Everyone's chart has a mix of good and bad yogas and many yogas are extremely common." is a good place to start in all of this... i am guessing these yogas have been arrived at thru direct observation..

neechabhanga is a fascinating concept that must appeal to many... i don't fully understand it, or when it is applied... thanks for bringing it up here again as i continue to fall to understand how it does or doesn't work.. it seems like a yoga that dismisses a lot of negative looking set ups! maybe astrologers need more of these to over ride the more fatalistic tendencies of astrology!!

let me ask you this aj.... would tajika astrological thought consider zelenskys 4/10th rulers in a raja yoga here? that is moon in the 4th in an approx out of sign 11 degree conjunction with saturn - ruler of the 10th... would that apply here? what explains zelenksys ability to curry favour with people in high places, beginning with his connection to igor kolomoisky?? it seems both of these political leaders have had connections to very powerful forces that largely remain in the background and hidden..

james_m wrote:neechabhanga is a fascinating concept that must appeal to many... i don't fully understand it, or when it is applied... thanks for bringing it up here again as i continue to fall to understand how it does or doesn't work.. it seems like a yoga that dismisses a lot of negative looking set ups! maybe astrologers need more of these to over ride the more fatalistic tendencies of astrology!!

let me ask you this aj.... would tajika astrological thought consider zelenskys 4/10th rulers in a raja yoga here? that is moon in the 4th in an approx out of sign 11 degree conjunction with saturn - ruler of the 10th... would that apply here? what explains zelenksys ability to curry favour with people in high places, beginning with his connection to igor kolomoisky?? it seems both of these political leaders have had connections to very powerful forces that largely remain in the background and hidden..

Hey James: For time I'm going to focus on these 2 items.

Firstly, neechabhanga raja yoga or cancellation of debilitation is unique to Indian astrology as far as I know. Yet it is my experience that as a concept it works maybe a third of the time, but when it does the results, like in Macron's horoscope, are pretty phenomenal. If is going to work it almost always needs another contributing configuration.

I have not looked at Zs chart in some time. First though be clear that Parashari and Tajika are two different systems though in modern practice there is some overlap. I practice both systems but usually not at the same time. The concept of yoga is different between the systems, technically speaking.

So. I'm not quite sure how to answer your question here about Zs chart so I will try by taking it from both systems.

First per Parashari for a Taurus ascendant Saturn alone causes raja yoga and using Equal Houses both the Moon and Saturn are associated in the 3rd house so a raja yoga. Again we see a Parivartana Maha Yoga produced by Saturn and the Sun. So yes, Z is very persuasive with the 3rd lord and 10th lord in raja yoga. There's a couple of other yogas that apply but maybe for another conversation.

Like I said, Tajika yogas are quite different than Parashari. I will try and keep it as simple as I can.

Tajika Yogas have a lot in common with Western aspects but are not limited to them. Maybe better said, Tajika Yogas are more than just an aspect between planets. In Tajika aspects are termed as special Yogas. Tajika aspects, unlike in western astrology where they are considered more on their own, an aspect forms the basis of the mutual relationship or Yoga between planets. Of course, it is not that simple, in addition to the aspects Tajika Yogas involve qualifying the relationship between planets, their natural temperament, friendships/enmity of the planets, placement and their role as functional malefics and benefics must all be taken into account.

Tajika also uses quadrant houses, the SriPati, or an adaptation of Porphyry except the cusps are the middle of the house. Martin et al has explained this elsewhere as well.

The Moon and Saturn are just on the edge of being within orb of a conjunction in the 4th SriPati house but since they both straddle the IC I would consider the conjunction. A lot of the considerations in Parashari to these would apply here as well.

So this is a long answer to your question about Zs ability to curry favor with those in high places.

In addition to this, I would look to Jupiter's rising just after the ascendant, as lord of the 8th of others peoples money and banking and the 11th of friends may be as much or more of making Z a influencer. The conjunction with the ascendant and the trine to the MC is pretty telling in my book. His Part of Fortune also falls in the 8th house.
The Moon-Saturn also sextiles Ju-Asc tying it all together.

Do you think Neptune on the Descendant opposing Ju, trining Mo-Sa would also help Z in weaving a grand illusion to sell?

aj

thanks for the long and detailed answer... to summarize : its complicated.. what this tells me is i need to learn more about these different systems within indian astrology..

is charak working with both of these systems - tajika and parashari? maybe he is also using jaimini as well... after reading 7 or 8 of his books, i ought to know...

at some point it gets all scattered and what was once a standard system becomes fragmented.. i am thinking of indian astrology, but western astrology is much the same.. there are these many different schools of astrological thought.. one is ultimately left to their own devices wandering in the dark or becoming the light... probably it is a case of both..

james_m wrote: is charak working with both of these systems - tajika and parashari? maybe he is also using jaimini as well... after reading 7 or 8 of his books, i ought to know...

at some point it gets all scattered and what was once a standard system becomes fragmented.. i am thinking of indian astrology, but western astrology is much the same.. there are these many different schools of astrological thought.. one is ultimately left to their own devices wandering in the dark or becoming the light... probably it is a case of both..

I have a few of Charak's books in my stuff. He has written quite a bit on both systems. I am not sure if he has written on Jaimini. I have only a cursory knowledge of Jaimini. Therese would know if Charak has written on Jaimini.
I do need to challenge the comment about becoming fragmented, at least in India. Tajika is a relatively recent addition to the Indian astrological toolkit when you hold it against the ancient backdrop of an unbroken two thousand year astrological tradition. Yet it retains a pretty coherent structure since the medieval period due to the Shastras. The best known is Tajika Neelakanthi, written by the same. If you go to an Indian bookshop and ask about Tajika more than likely this is the one you will be shown. There are others but not as well known due to just not being in print, at least in translated into English.
Tajika is mostly used for Varshaphala or solar returns and Prashna (horary) astrology as a grafted branch of Parashari. Like a modern apple tree, most are grafts. Most practitioners I have run across including myself keep them pretty separate in practice. From what I have read of Charak (it's been a long time), he also keeps the them pretty compartmented.

Akin to this I have had conversations with one KP Paddhati astrologer that also will switch back and forth to Parashari. He doesn't use Tajika as far as I know.

...But I will admit there is a great danger, especially now, to Indian astrology with all of its various schools of astrology in becoming hybridized to the point of losing the purity of the traditions.
One of the worst offenders that really set this trend is the modern BPHS that has a lot of undigested Jaimini material within it that is jumbled in with the Parashari system. Then there is just the infiltration of western astrological thinking diluting the traditional schools.

Whether this co-mingling is good or bad is not a point I'm making here. That's a whole other conversation. Therese has expressed some good thoughts on this board along these lines in the past.

okay - thanks aj!

i am not a scholar, lol...i am like the antithesis of a scholar or historian here.. i am just trying to understand it all better.... but i have an ace in the hole and that is this...

i play music! i see many parallels between music and astrology, but maybe i am stretching this idea here... i am familiar with all the different genres and see modern day music which often times blends them, as a fascinating and exciting musical realm in itself! some conservative types - or traditionalists - in the music world have difficulty with my musical views on the blending of genres.. when it comes right down to it - it is all playing with sounds and rhythms... i suspect it is much the same with astrology, but some people might not like me saying this... as an exercise and challenge to you - what is the equivalent to sound and rhythm of music in astrological terms?? as i see it 'the traditions' are built up on the essence of what astrology is.. there are different 'traditions' of course, but what do they all have in common?? i believe improvisation is common to both music and astrology.. those who resist new ideas and ways of looking or seeing, are their own worst enemies...

i am getting philosophical here.. someone accused me of being a rambler yesterday.. maybe that is it!

here is a composer and musician who i have been listening to lately... he is combining classical ideas within an improvised context...most people will probably call it jazz, but if you listen to the whole recording you will hear a number of different musical influences, including rock, classical, jazz and maybe some other styles rhythmically anyway... i offer this as an example of what i consider ''creative'' and rewarding to me anyway on a personal level.. what if someone was to do the same with astrology? maybe this is what they discuss at astrology conferences? i have never been to one.. maybe my image of them all being stuffed shirts is completely wrong, lol...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVvnC-- ... 0g&index=2

james_m wrote:as an exercise and challenge to you - what is the equivalent to sound and rhythm of music in astrological terms?? as i see it 'the traditions' are built up on the essence of what astrology is.. there are different 'traditions' of course, but what do they all have in common?? i believe improvisation is common to both music and astrology.. those who resist new ideas and ways of looking or seeing, are their own worst enemies...

i am getting philosophical here.. someone accused me of being a rambler yesterday.. maybe that is it!

I'm not arguing that new ideas and alternative viewpoints are detrimental. My point was that Indian astrology has had much less technical loss and interference than western astrology over the course of centuries. That's all.

I am unwilling to broaden the conversation because I really don't disagree with you. Besides, it's doomed to become a nature/nurture type of argument even if I wanted to play devils advocate.

Aren't there some piccolo or bass drum players you can have a jazz duel with on the tailgate of your Rambler to get it out of your system? LOL.

Be Well.

okay, okay! i have parked the rambler... it needs a new muffler anyway - as you can tell!

James wrote:

Is Charak working with both of these systems - tajika and parashari? maybe he is also using jaimini as well... after reading 7 or 8 of his books, i ought to know...

Dr. Charak isn’t a practicing astrologer. We don’t know his age or when he might be near retirement, but according to a current web site he is still a senior consultant and Chief of General Surgery at the Indian Spinal Injuries Centre, Vasant Kunj, New Delhi. He also leads a charitable organization devoted to providing free surgical and medical care to the poor and the ailing in the rural areas of India. http://drkscharak.com/

Charak is an astrological scholar, clearly devoted to India’s traditional astrology. He carefully researches topics before writing about them. Along with this many books, he is also editor of Vedic Astrology Digest, now going on to the fifth book in the series. When would he have time to practice astrology as a consultant? (I don’t think Charak has written on Jaimini, but I’m not going through the table of contents of five issues of Vedic Astrology Digest.)

AJ wrote:

At some point it gets all scattered and what was once a standard system becomes fragmented.. i am thinking of indian astrology, but western astrology is much the same.. there are these many different schools of astrological thought.. one is ultimately left to their own devices wandering in the dark or becoming the light... probably it is a case of both..

The problem of mixing systems is much more serious when we’re talking about western tropical and India’s sidereal system. Today’s western Jyotish astrologers are inventing attributes for sidereal signs (often largely copied from the tropical) which are patently incorrect and misleading. This will result in an incorrect understanding of the energies of signs and how signs operate. In turn this affects every consultation session with clients, not to mention the influence on students who happen to use western Jyotish books for study.

I do need to challenge the comment about becoming fragmented, at least in India. Tajika is a relatively recent addition to the Indian astrological toolkit when you hold it against the ancient backdrop of an unbroken two thousand year astrological tradition. Yet it retains a pretty coherent structure since the medieval period due to the Shastras.

Martin Gansten has covered the journey of western (Persian) solar returns to India’s Tajika system in his hefty and exhaustive The Jewel of Annual Astrology (Brill 2020, open access). In the transition we learn of many Indian corruptions of western concepts. Now that we have Ben Dykes’ translations of Perso-Arabic texts, it’s easy to trace text corruptions when studying India’s Tajika system. In the past I’ve experimented with Tajika with poor results, and have returned to the western Solar Return charts.

...But I will admit there is a great danger, especially now, to Indian astrology with all of its various schools of astrology in becoming hybridized to the point of losing the purity of the traditions.
One of the worst offenders that really set this trend is the modern BPHS that has a lot of undigested Jaimini material within it that is jumbled in with the Parashari system. Then there is just the infiltration of western astrological thinking diluting the traditional schools.

It’s interesting that V. Subramanya Sastri (arguably India’s most talented and knowledgeable translator of astrological texts), chose not to translate BPHS in favor of Jataka Parijata. This suggests that perhaps he had questions about the value of BPHS. The current BPHS is an excellent example of how the purity of ancient texts is becoming lost. BPHS has become a kind of bible for contemporary practitioners of Jyotish, particularly in the west.