this signing took place at 14;46- 14:47 according to reliable sources.. i have used 14:46:30 april 4, 2023 -brussels.. sidereal zodiac, but others can add to this via tropical zodiac commentary.. usa foreign policy objectives under the guise of nato - continue to expand..




its an interesting chart! descendant at the exact midpoint of pluto-saturn - a fitting alliance of sorts.... the sun-moon midpoint hits directly onto the 12th house mars too... the symbolism is indeed fitting... there is an exchange between mercury and mars - rulers of the 10th and 12th houses... mercury the 12th house ruler is directly on the midheaven.. and mercury also rules the 3rd house moon in this chart.. mercury is not a friend to cancer lagna..

looking at synastry to the nato charts - nato 1 chart the ascendant is exactly on this events moon.. nato 2 chart has natal mercury exactly on the moon for this chart with mars also in the same same in both charts..

of course there is also the fact nato 1 chart for april 4th has the sun at the same place as this event was also for april 4th - 74 years later..

the indian ex diplomat M. K. BHADRAKUMAR sums it up well..

https://www.indianpunchline.com/us-sees ... of-russia/

James,


I used the time for the flag raising, as completion of the ceremony.
15:35
(It changes the sidereal ascendant to Leo.
Mars is then in the 11th house ( alliances) in parivartana yoga with Mercury in 9th house (foreign issues).)

It also change the planetary hour to an Mars Hour on a Mars day.
(Tropically it is also in a Mars Term).

But it may be open to choice which time to use of course.

Finland Who shares borders with Russia still have a collective trauma after the invasion of Russia 1939. Which led to a traumatic war which still haunts the nation.


So I think the Finland move into NATO is a result of history in the situation of having shared border with a very irrational neighbor.


Tropical chart for the flag raising 15:35

".........the Finnish flag was raised at the NATO headquarters in Brussels today at 15:35. Finland became NATO's 31st member state in a historic expansion"

The Ascendant in Leo.
Asc ruler the Sun exalted in Aries conjunct Jupiter in house 9th (foreign affairs).
With the all-important ascendant and its ruler the Sun in such a favorable position, it looks like a positive move for Finland to join NATO, which will probably help Finland get the most out of NATO membership.
* The trine from Moon to an angular venus in 10th Taurus elevated may provide some security for the people still remembering the invasion by neighbour Russia 1939.
*The Moon opposition Neptune is not optimal. The Moon rules the 12th.
*Mars in its 'fall' in Cancer in the 11th could be better. Can give a certain uncertainty sometimes?
*House 9 ruler Mars in the 11th (support, community, other nations) well aspected.
*House 11 ruler Mercury in House 9.
(Interesting connections between House 9 (Foreign Affairs) and House 11 (Community, Associations). In more ways than one here.
So I think there could be a worse chart for Finland's NATO entry than this chart.
(Sweden not there yet. From memory I think the Moon was Void when Sweden applied formally)


When studying this chart in more depth, an interesting Mars related theme emerges. Mars is seemingly weak in cancer. But is strong in triplicity and also in the Terms of Mars. And the raising of the Finnish flag occured on a tuesday (Mars day), and in a Mars Hour making Mars the Almuten of the chart.


Tropical chart set in Alcabitius





I have a different polititical view than yours of course. And will not go into a political arguing here.

.



One of my friends is actually a child of a father who was separated from family and deported to Sweden as a child, as a security maneuver, as a result of the Russian invasion into Finland. Thousands of such cases existed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_war_children

She wrote a celebrated book about the trauma. Stretching generations.
This is actually shown in her chart by having mars (war) at her natal IC, showing ancestral war karma directly involved in family dynamics.
(Portion of her chart below)

Stefan,

Regarding the chart you posted, Sun (ruling the AS)/Jupiter conjunction on the cusp of the 9th House in Aries on the exaltation degree of the Sun in Aries, I would say that Finland will be a 'militant of peace' in NATO.

Best to you,
Ouranos

thanks stefan

i imagine both charts can work, but i do like the signing chart for the midpoints, especially the ascendant axis at the saturn/pluto midpoint... the midpoint involving sun/moon=mars is in both charts regardless... this pattern shows up in the D9 chart which is shown below.. early leo rising ( sidereal ) is gandanta.. https://jothishi.com/gandanta-the-karmic-knot/



mars is exalted in the D9 chart which gives it greater strength.. i suppose there are a few ways to interpret the D9 chart, and i am a novice at it.. regarding your interpretation using the leo rising chart, the poster wei offered a viewpoint on the russia 2021 aries ingress chart which involved early leo rising -trine sun in aries, conjunct the benefic venus in a 2 degree aspect.. but they came to very different conclusion!

Wei wrote:??????????????Russian Ingress Analysis for 2021
Aries Ingress 2021

For the Aries Ingress in Russia in 2021, Leo was on the Ascendant, with the Sun as the ruler. Like Mars, the Sun is also associated with war, and the Sun placed in the 10th house suggests the intention of the authorities or president to start a war..

i realize astrologers can come to different conclusions off charts, but i did notice some parallels here with both yours and ouranos commentary.. i guess it depends on which country the astrology is applied to... or maybe i am giving wei short shrift and in fairness to all of you, i am willing to acknowledge how astrology is a fairly subjective interpretative art...

finland was also on the side of the nazis in ww2... it is easy to form a conclusion based on a lack of historical knowledge.. things may appear irrational ( as you say ) when we don't understand or appreciate both sides of the story - any story..

Stefan wrote: So I think the Finland move into NATO is a result of history in the situation of having shared border with a very irrational neighbor.

this is an extension of the use of the navamsha or D9 chart in gaining more insight into the chart for nato -finland signing on april 4th 2023 in belgium - 1446pm cedt...

the basic concept is that you use the ascendant - lagna of D1 - natal chart, or event chart in this case - signing of the nato-finland agreement, with the navamsha or D9 - 9th harmonic chart planets in relation to the D1 chart ascendant..




here is the reverse of the above chart.. this is the D9 lagna, or 9th harmonic chart ascendant, with the D1 planets spread around the chart, using the D9 ascendant/lagna as the basis for the chart..



basic analysis of the D9 planets in the D1 ascendant is as follows.. looking at the first biwheel chart i would define the ascendant representing finland, with the descendant representing nato. looking at the D1 chart alone, the ascendant is ruled by the moon in a direct opposition to neptune.. i think this defines its new relationship with nato, based on a type of idealism with a strong possibility the details of the agreement will not be as idealistic as they first appear to be... looking at the descendant (capricorn) as defining nato, we see the ruler is strong by sign in aquarius, in finlands 8th house - with the implication this is going to cost finland money for the 'protection' of finland by participating directly within nato.. neptune is also close to the ascendant in the signing of the agreement chart, implying more of the same as above..

considering how the D9 planets fall in the D1 chart, we see the ruler of the D1 chart - moon) lands in the 7th - capricorn... the moon is not strengthened in the D9 chart, but weakened.. one of the ways indian astrologers assess the strength of planets is thru the use of the D9 chart... if a planet or angle is found in the same sign in both charts it is said to be strengthened.. the indian astro term is vargottami.. there is nothing of that nature here.. the other way a planet can gain strength is if it is in poor shape in the D1 chart, but is strengthened in the D9 chart - whether by moving into a more favourable sign placement, or by moving into an angle of the chart.. in the case of the moon - one could say it is a mixed bag due the moon going from virgo in the D1 chart to capricon in the D9 chart, while it goes from a 3rd whole sign position in the D1 chart to the ascendant angle in the D9 chart.. the planet uranus is in opposite signs, but makes an upper and lower square to the ascendant axis in both the D1 and D9 charts which to me suggests some instability in the relationship due the uranus square..

saturn, ruler of the 7th house in the D1 chart, is in the sign sag in the D9 chart and lands in the 6th house of the D1 chart in a conjunction of sorts to ketu, or south node. D9 jupiter lands in the 8th house of the D1 chart..

here is the reverse consideration. D1 planets in the D9 ascendant. D1 sun/jupiter lands in the 3rd house of the D9 chart, implying some obvious benefits from this friendship - mostly accrued by nato, as opposed to finland if we think of the capricorn ascendant as representative of nato here, as suggested from my read of the D1 chart. D1 mars (in gemini) in the D9 6th house also seems favourable here.. i am not sure what to make of the close connections via D1 mars to D9 mercury ( a conjunction ) verses D1 mercury to D9 mars ( a sqiare).

i have drawn some conclusions off the use of the D9 chart from all of this, but just to reiterate - i believe the signing chart has more merit then the flag raising chart. i would like to show this by considering the connections to the chart in popular use for finland - dec 6th 1917 - 3pm helsinki to the april 4th 2023 246pm signing chart in my next post.

https://www.astrodevam.com/concept-of-v ... ctive-tool

Hi James,

I appreciate you trying to capture some diversity in your threads by retitling the thread topic where people also give a short tropical POV too.

However, I personally think the term ''Trans Zodiac'' is a bit arcane. To me at least it almost seems to imply we are going to transcend beyond any zodiac altogether. Can I propose the whole forum adopt the more prosaic and straight forward term ''Mixed Zodiacs'' if a thread discussion involves of more than one zodiac?

Thanks

Mark

Maybe Trans Zodiac refers to some inclusive LGBTQ new category.
As we all know, it stands for Let's Go Back To Quarantine.
But obviously, we cannot get a straight answer here.

James wrote

finland was also on the side of the nazis in ww2... it is easy to form a conclusion based on a lack of historical knowledge.. things may appear irrational ( as you say ) when we don't understand or appreciate both sides of the story - any story..

Yes - But that was AFTER the fact that Russia invaded Finland, caused a bloody war and made territorial gains from Finland. It was after that invasion Finland tried to regain some of it's lost territory by doing an understandably mistake of joining with Germany against Russia.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Finland chart I have studied in the past, and seems to be a very strong chart, responding to transits and progressions in a powerful way. It is also closely tied in with the Swedish 1523 chart in many ways in synastry mirroring the close relationship between the countries historically and in present times.

At the Russian invasion 1939 the Solar Arc directions in this Finland chart was stunning - two angular Arc's from the outer planets directly to the angles.

Solar Arc MC-00-UR
Solar Arc PL-00-IC


This is also present to some extent today 2023, with Finland joining NATO:
In this Finland chart the following angular directions is present:

Solar Arc ASC-90-PL
Solar Arc MC-90-SA


( This also gives some leverage to the 'signing chart' as the ascendant of the signing is about conjunction to Finlands radix Saturn triggering this direction).

At the invasion of Russia into Ukraine in feb 2022 transiting Pluto was exactly on Finlands MC - setting forth changes in the nation. Probably invoking fears from the past in the country collective mood.
The progressed Moon was at 27' Cancer - right on IC.

hi mark

obviously it would be easiest if everyone could accept the 2 different zodiacs and allow for posting on either, as opposed to having to label and segregate them... skyscript has an interesting history on this topic too!


how does one allow for posters to post using either zodiac? i think it is a lot like transgender, so i called it trans-zodiac... i don't have an attachment to this and only wanted to imply it is fine for others to post in either zodiac on any of these threads that i have initiated... that's all..

cheers james

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trans

hi stefan

i thought you didn't want to talk (or argue) about this political stuff?? as i said previously - there will always be many ways of viewing something.. when only one side is represented, it is not a fair representation as i see it.. i leave it at that...

thanks for your additional astro commentary.. i don't know about the 1523 chart for sweden.. perhaps you'd like to do a post on this and talk about this? the solar arc data you cite sounds very challenging.. at some point finland separated from sweden, or became its own country.. i know about the 1917 chart for finland which i was going to make a post on... i will do that now..

here is the 1917 chart for finland dec 6, 3pm helsinki - sidereal..



its a diurnal, seesaw type chart according to marc edmund jones chart types.. the nodal axis - rka - is aligned with the mercury-pluto opposition in the chart which adds to the seesaw flavour of the chart.. at the same time both lights are involved with mars, with mars and sun in mutual reception here.. mars rules 12/7, while sun rules 4 if one relies solely on whole house signs.. the sun-moon aspect is a fairly close square - this timing coinciding with the last quarter of the moon - a type of culmination of sorts being suggested by the timing for this..

venus is the ruler of the ascendant placed in the 9th sign from the ascendant sign, but in the 10th house using quadrant houses.. it is in turn ruled by saturn in poor shape celestially in the sign cancer.. there is an opposition between saturn and uranus which coincides with the square that had been in operation at the time of the feb 2022 conflict with one of its neighbours next to its direct border.. this saturn-uranus opposition would also strongly emphasize the back and forth challenges as seen in this 1917 chart we have for finland.. jupiter in the ascendant is in turn ruled by venus... jupiter rules the 8/11 houses of this chart.. generally having a planet in the ascendant that rules a difficult house is not considered favourable... however maybe this is offset by it being ruled by venus which is alsays a friend to a taurus ascendant. venus is involved in a wide by sign opposition to neptune-saturn which i have something to say about in a moment..

below is a biwheel with 1917 finland chart on the inside and the signing of the nato-finland on the outside..



a few things stand out to me about this chart... first is the close connection of the ascendant in the april 4th 246pm signing in brussels with the position of saturn in the 1917 chart for finland... saturn is in the 3rd house of friends - using whole house system.. but more interestingly for me - the close square of sun-moon involving mars as well in the 1917 chart lands at the midpoint of saturn-neptune in the 2023 chart for the signing.. the signing chart has saturn at 9 aquarius 00 and neptune at 1 pisces 46 - a difference of 22 degrees and 46 minutes... the midpoint of these 2 planets is at approx 20 aquarius 23 very close to where we find the sun-moon-mars pattern in the 1917 chart.. moon in the 1917 finland chart is at 20 leo 41 with sun at 21 scorpio 15... mars is outside of this tie in - being at 24 leo 31... to summarize - sun/moon = saturn/neptune if one uses midpoints..

there are a number of other close connections between the charts.. 2023 venus-square 1917 uranus, 2023 pluto - opposed to 1917 venus, 2023 mars in direct conjunction to 1917 pluto-ketu and by that - in direct opposition to 1917 mercury-rahu... one can see how this decision made by finland was not an easy one and one that would be very divisive for the country as a whole.. i base this on the nature of the 1917 chart itself which i first described using marc edmund jones brilliant observations referred to as marc edmund jones chart types... most all of this astro applies regardless whether one uses the signing time, or the flag raised time.. i may have more to say, but that is enough for now..

if anyone is interested in researching the D9 - navamsha to D1 - natal chart and what i was discussing in the previous post on this thread, these approaches are called Rsahi Tulya Navamsha & Navamsha Tulya Rashi... check that out if you are more interested in this use of these charts...