James wrote:

If anyone is interested in researching the D9 - navamsha to D1 - natal chart and what i was discussing in the previous post on this thread, these approaches are called Rsahi Tulya Navamsha & Navamsha Tulya Rashi... check that out if you are more interested in this use of these charts...

James, I'm not following this topic and don't want to detract from the central ideas, but I think I should point out that your use of the navamsa chart isn't traditional in India, which for centuries has noted only the sign positions of planets in navamsa charts to help determine the strength of planets.

In the 1990s C.S. Patel unearthed from ancient texts the technique you discussed (Rashi Tulya Navamsa). He discusses this technique in Navamsa In Astrology (Sagar Publications, 1997). I don't know if you have this book or if a later author has taken the concept from Patel. I mainly want to place this technique in historical perspective and give credit to C.S. Patel for its re-discovery.

Apologies for going off track in this discussion.

hi therese

that is good to know and i didn't know that.. thanks! i am really trying to understand the finland-nato relationship ultimately... i am a poor teacher, but i know that the navamsha chart is specifically used for the purpose of understanding one's spouse, or 7th house matters.. so it seemed relevant to me, all the extensions off these ideas -new and old..

funny enough - i bought a few books on navamsha about 3 or 4 years ago... the one i got from c s patel is called 'navamsa & nadi astrology'... i probably should have got the one you referenced..

to drag it back to the topic of finland-nato, i have been thinking that it is maybe finland that is represented by the 7th and nato by the first... i haven't figured it out and am receptive to either here.. while i believe finland initiated this, it was at nato headquarters where it was signed....

james_m wrote:i have been thinking that it is maybe finland that is represented by the 7th and nato by the first... i haven't figured it out and am receptive to either here.. while i believe finland initiated this, it was at nato headquarters where it was signed....

I am really curious about your astro-logic on assigning Finland to the 7th house and NATO to the 1st house.
~AJ

aj

here is my best explanation.. in any relationship - it takes 2, to tango and willingly initiate a relationship.. nato is a russian containment strategy that began shortly after the cia was started in 1947..

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/ST ... S_0015.pdf

who was initiating this relationship and how did it come about?? the date april 4th, 2023 when this signing took place was the 74th anniversary of nato.. aug 24, 1949 is date the treaty came into effect...
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documen ... tic-treaty
there are 2 charts for nato based off this... in considering this signing of finland into nato to the aug 24th, 1949 chart for nato, there is a large number of close aspects implying to me that nato had a big hand in bringing this about, as opposed to finland..

here is a biwheel with nato aug 24th 1949 chart on the inside and the finland-nato signing 246pm, april 4, 2023 chart on the outside..



here are the connections between the charts..

nato ascendant - 9 libra 54 - finland signing - ketu 9 libra 59
nato sun - 8 leo 03 - finland signing- saturn 9 squarius 00
nato mercury - 1 virgo 58 - finland signing - moon 1 virgo 13
nato neptune - 20 virgo 18 - finland signing - sun 20 pisces 24
nato uranus 11 gemini 00 - finland signing - mars 10 gemini 53
nato pluto - 23 cancer 36 - finland signing - ascendant 22 cancer 28

all i am getting at is that the quesion of which party is the ascendant and which party is the 7th house is not a clear thing in my mind... i suppose that ordinarily one would think of nato as the passive organization here, while finland is the active country seeking integration, but i am not convinced of this based off the astro i have outlined above..

an interesting combo for consideration - nato pluto at 23 cancer to finlands saturn at 22 cancer...the signing on april 4, 2023 in brussels has 22 cancer rising.. the nature of saturn and pluto has been defined by astrologers as one of 'hardship' and indicative of outer experiences like war... i find it interesting astrologically how these planets are brought together and highlighted by the rising degree in the signing of finland into natos circle... this is approx 3 years after we had every 38 year conjunction of these 2 planets in 2020...

james_m wrote:all i am getting at is that the quesion of which party is the ascendant and which party is the 7th house is not a clear thing in my mind... i suppose that ordinarily one would think of nato as the passive organization here, while finland is the active country seeking integration, but i am not convinced of this based off the astro i have outlined above..

an interesting combo for consideration - nato pluto at 23 cancer to finlands saturn at 22 cancer...the signing on april 4, 2023 in brussels has 22 cancer rising.. the nature of saturn and pluto has been defined by astrologers as one of 'hardship' and indicative of outer experiences like war... i find it interesting astrologically how these planets are brought together and highlighted by the rising degree in the signing of finland into natos circle... this is approx 3 years after we had every 38 year conjunction of these 2 planets in 2020...

Hey James, fair enough. It is true these things do not always follow clear conventions. I appreciate the depth of your answer and pointing out the resonance between the charts. Thanks.
~AJ

James_M wrote:

mark

obviously it would be easiest if everyone could accept the 2 different zodiacs and allow for posting on either, as opposed to having to label and segregate them... skyscript has an interesting history on this topic too!

You mean it would be easier if everyone adopted your viewpoint?

It wasn't that long ago sidereal charts were banned on the traditional forum altogether.

I have always adopted a more tolerant attitude to allow members to post in whatever zodiac they prefer on the mundane forum.

However, I dont think it would be unfair to describe your approach as somewhat idiosycratic in the sense you can comfortably shift between zodiacs. At the very least I think your position is not a common one. Most astrologers seem committed to either the tropical or a sidereal ayanamsa.

I suppose this topic is a question of perception. You clearly view a mix of zodiac in a thread as perfectly natural and organic. On the other hand others may view it as a confusing muddle or at least a diminution of astrological focus.

To some extent this has only become an issue because so many sidereal mundane astrologers seem to gravitate here. I think that is undeniably some kudos to you for the interest your posts have generated over the last few years since you switched zodiac.

While the majority view remains to stick with either a tropical or sidereal zodiac I think I will continue to ask threads to be labelled as either tropical, sidereal or mixed zodiacs.

As for the term ''Trans-zodiac''. I looked at the dictionary too! I dont want to turn this into a over pedantic discussion on etymology. I just think the popular conflation of this term for a gender issue rather detracts from our focus here. Moreover, often threads you have described as ''Trans-Zodiac'' are not really that. Rather we find nearly all the posts by you using a sidereal framework but maybe one post by another member who works tropically. In that event the discussion hasn't fundamentally moved from one zodiac to the other. But I do think to capture the fact more than one zodiac is being discussed the term ''Mixed Zodiacs'' is reasonable.

I still think we need to categorise threads what they predominate with zodiac wise.

Mark

thanks mark..

i am in seville at the moment.. i consider the possibility of others seeing it my way, especially in this age of propaganda, as slim to none!

if it is any consolation, my wife still relates to the tropical zodiac and wishes you would continue to post warm and fuzzy teddy bears on fb! so, you are mot alone in wanting a warmer and friendlier place as an abode, both zodiacwise and just more generally! peace ~ james