Mark wrote:
But my main concern here is that may be electoral fraud to keep Erdogan in power.

hi mark,

maybe you'd like to go into the astrological rationale for saying what you do... thanks..

are you also concerned about election manipulation to keep erdogan out of power?? as you know - it can work both ways... the attempted coup in turkey in 2016, although not directly related to this election, is relevant... see the link below for another example...

https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-ele ... NKCN25C04D

here is a quote from yesterday which seems relevant as well..

"I was treated all week to fawning articles about Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu in all West media (just as I remember reading laudatory articles in WSJ and NYT about a Lebanese drug dealer because he was running against Hizbullah). Today I am flooded on twitter with pro-Kılıçdaroğlu tweets"

James_M wrote:

hi mark,

maybe you'd like to go into the astrological rationale for saying what you do... thanks..

I have concerns both astrological and political about Erdogan. Elections in Turkey under Erdogan always seem to defy astrological indicators. It seems a bit fishy to me.

Back in 2017 Tania Daniels did a very good analysis of the politics of Turkey and and the opening of poll chart for the constitutional referendum proposing to increase the powers of the Presidency. However, the result was the total opposite of what she delineated. Now I fully accept we can all go wrong on predictions as you know. But that chart was so clear it made Tania feel the election might not have been entirely above board. Thats what started to make me think Turkish elections were real challenge for any astrological analysis.

Thats backed up by political commentators and some Internatonal observers that have suggested elections under Erdogon have not been free and fair.

This is not to deny he is still very popular. He is a populist, nationalist and Islamacist. He definitely has a large demographic behind him.


James -M wrote:

are you also concerned about election manipulation to keep erdogan out of power??

Are you trying to be comedic here James? The media is under government control and heavily censured, and state resources are used exclusively to support the government’s election campaign. There is severe voter suppression in the rural areas under the pretext of security concerns. Finally, the government instrumentalises the judiciary to intimidate and suppress political opponents. Its hard to deny that since Erdogan became President there has been a growing authoritarianism in Turkey. I am not suggesting Kılıçdaroğlu and his followers are saints. But they do not control the apparatus of the state the way Erdogan does.

James_M wrote:

here is a quote from yesterday which seems relevant as well..

"I was treated all week to fawning articles about Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu in all West media (just as I remember reading laudatory articles in WSJ and NYT about a Lebanese drug dealer because he was running against Hizbullah). Today I am flooded on twitter with pro-Kılıçdaroğlu tweets"

What on earth is the relevance of this unattributted outlandish quote?

Your quite the contrarian James. Whenever there is a political stance that seems anti-western you seem to want to lap it up like nectar.

I feel this is a great opportunity for learning and practice. ????

Although I did not predict accurately, I believe that getting the correct direction of thought and observation is more important than accurate prediction during the learning stage.

I think Ingress Charts is a very good observation tool.

Erdogan has been in power in Turkey for 20 years, and now he has not obtained a majority in the first round of voting, which is a major blow to Erdogan's rule itself.

Moreover, in the Aries Ingress Chart, with Sagittarius rising and Jupiter as the ruling planet, it represents the country as a whole and the people, symbolizing that the people aspire to a freer and more tolerant social environment. However, because the Moon conjuncts Neptune and squares Mars, the power of the voters is weak, but it also shows that there will be two dividing forces within Turkey in the future (Mars in Gemini), and there may be protests and riots in the future.

The display of the Aries Ingress Chart was not wrong, what was wrong was my judgment. ????. I may need more specific evidence to judge whether a candidate is elected or not.

We hope that we can see the whole picture of things, but our data and information are very limited, coupled with cognitive bias that sometimes occur, it's normal for us to make mistakes. ????

We hope that we can see the whole picture of things, but our data and information are very limited, coupled with cognitive bias that sometimes occur, it's normal for us to make mistakes. ????

Don't worry Wei. The best way to learn is to make mistakes.
In 'The Astrology of Choice', Roy Alexander provides one of the best way to approach astrology
'Give up your need to be right'
And astrologers are especially vulnerable to feel threatened in such a way.
In this context, 'we do not need to create causality in order to have the system (astrology) work.'
Astrology is like being in front of a language and trying to give the best translation possible. The same text will generate different translations.
When you make a judgment on a chart, you are simply providing your own understanding of the sky and I prefer your approach to not taking a stand by fear of being wrong.
And when someone disagrees with you, well Great! We all have learned something!

Thank you! Keep up the great work!
Ouranos

Well said, Ouranos. ???? and thank you ??????

I increasingly feel that my purpose in this world seems to be a quest for some profound emotional and spiritual experiences.

I don't have other interests, nor am I a person who is particularly good at focus and self-management ????. But the only interest I've stuck with, astrology, has surprisingly lasted 23 years until now. ????.

I guess astrology must hold a special meaning for me.

I don't plan to use astrology to make money or establish my own reputation (though of course, I still hope to earn some money because I need to survive????).

But once I focus on money, fame, predictive results, and approval from others, I feel uncomfortable all over. ????

I've decided to be kinder to myself, ???? (life is short, don't make yourself unhappy), so I don't want to focus on the above-mentioned things.

mark

okay.. your thinking on possible election fraud is subjective and only goes in one direction... if you had read the link to reuters which highlighted bidens pre election viewpoint on erdogan, maybe you'd acknowledge that election interference can work in both directions... perhaps you feel the attempted coup in turkey in 2016 was an inside job with erdogan as the main puppet master??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Turk ... at_attempt

perhaps the british empire, treaty of versailles and etc etc were just benevolent acts of real democracy in action, lol... meddling can and does happen and is ongoing... apparently the turkish press think so too!

oh yes - and i am trying to be comedic here, but you are doing a much better job of it then me!

https://www.dailysabah.com/politics/ele ... on-success

I believe the most valuable aspect of astrology is its ability to transcend specific political positions and our set ways of thinking, striving to provide us with an objective reference. ????

"Most of the time we confuse knowledge with information. Knowledge is empowering, information isn't.' (Roy Alexander)

without reducing negative qualities, progress in spiritual life is as impossible as carrying water in a sieve..........................................

I feel as an astrologer, we are under a lot of pressure! ????
We face various kinds of criticism.
Mainstream societal values criticize us, seeing astrology as outdated, useless, deceiving, and without any scientific basis.
Criticism among astrologers, the astrological method you use is not as good as the one I use. ????
Self-criticism and belittlement by astrologers, I lack the talent and ability to learn astrology.....????
Given this high-pressure and critical environment, we dare not move, how do we move forward?
So...........
To those who predicted the situation in the Turkish presidential election in favor of the opposition,
Is there anyone willing to reflect on why we got our prediction wrong? ????

erdogan wins....

maybe some reassessing is in order...

https://www.dailysabah.com/politics/ele ... h-election