I've got two different information on the time of affection of the solar return chart, one saying that it starts to affect 6 months ago before the solar return date, and another saying that it shows what will happen in the following year after the date when the sun returns. I wonder when the solar return chart starts to have affection, and in prediction, I should adopt which method above.

maybe i am a simplistic thinker, but the solar return is good for the year in question from the time of the solar return... now, charak an indian astrologer who is really into varshaphala suggests looking at solar returns in clusters to find a theme for the extended period.. so instead of just looking at the one solar return, you consider a few of them when doing this.. perhaps there is a theme... our lives generally don't radically shift every year, but sometimes it does... maybe others can comment..

here is something on the indian approach via youtube.. i haven't watched it..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=GFsOZV-G4pI

James wrote:

Maybe i am a simplistic thinker, but the solar return is good for the year in question from the time of the solar return... now, charak an indian astrologer who is really into varshaphala suggests looking at solar returns in clusters to find a theme for the extended period.. so instead of just looking at the one solar return, you consider a few of them when doing this.. perhaps there is a theme... our lives generally don't radically shift every year, but sometimes it does... maybe others can comment..

It doesn't make sense to me that an event or pattern suggested in a solar return that happens at a specific point in time begins months earlier. Perhaps someone rationalized that thought when the method of study (or zodiac?) didn't reflect events of the year.

Charak's thought of studying a series of solar return is interesting. Just now I'm looking at President Biden's solar for the coming November, and it's radically different from his current solar which has a double angular (sidereal) Jupiter: solar Jupiter at the MC and natal Jupiter in the 1st house. But I do think we need to use a method that breaks down the SR into segments during the year. There are are many methods for this.

Therese Hamilton wrote:Charak's thought of studying a series of solar return is interesting.

Hey All and Aimer: Looking at a sequence of the Varshaphala (solar return) charts before and even after the current year in question is relatively common in Tajika practice. Parashara's Light and Sri Jyoti Star apps have default setups for this.

As far at when the current solar return and the next becomes effective, there are many opinions. My Tajika guru taught that generally, once the transiting Sun ingressed into the native's Sun sign the influence of the current years solar return starts to wane quickly. Dependent on other factors too, like any applying transits of the slow moving visible planets to the natal Sun close to the birth day, but you get the idea.

Another scheme is when the Sun is applying within 15 degrees of its natal position the next solar return starts to kick in. This idea is not too different from the above.

Be Well and I hope this helps.

hey therese

that idea never made sense to me either! and another thing - although i am a fan of relocation data, i have ultimately found both work some, but the natal birth location is the best spot for use in solar returns... that is my take and an additional consideration on this... essentially as james a eshelman in his book 'interpreting solar returns emphasizes - planets in the angles are a key focal point to looking at these charts...

thanks aj... i like all that you have added to this.. that all makes a good deal of sense to me personally and broadens the perspective here in a helpful way..

AJ wrote:Hey All and Aimer: Looking at a sequence of the Varshaphala (solar return) charts before and even after the current year in question is relatively common in Tajika practice.

Do you mean among contemporary Indian astrologers? I've never encountered that idea in classical T??jika texts. (Nor the idea that a revolution can begin to exercise an influence before it has actually taken place -- I'd be interested to know where that comes from. I can't recall seeing it in Arabic or European authors either.)

Of course, as a year is roughly 365.25 days, roughly (not exactly) the same ascendant and other house cusps will recur every four years.

Martin Gansten wrote: Do you mean among contemporary Indian astrologers? I've never encountered that idea in classical T??jika texts. (Nor the idea that a revolution can begin to exercise an influence before it has actually taken place

Martin: Yes, this is from parampara, or as you say contemporary practice. I have not read this in the Shastras either. Yet, not all practice can be contained in the ancient texts.
The idea is that the force of a solar return wanes shortly before the next return. Note shortly. I was sharing what my Tajika guru practiced.
Be Well.

James wrote,

That idea never made sense to me either! and another thing - although i am a fan of relocation data, i have ultimately found both work some, but the natal birth location is the best spot for use in solar returns... that is my take and an additional consideration on this... essentially as james a eshelman in his book 'interpreting solar returns emphasizes - planets in the angles are a key focal point to looking at these charts...

I agree with the Indian view that the location of the birth chart is best, but the relocation applies. Here is an example from my own work: An Indian relative now living in America had a serious car accident. The chart for the event (either the solar return or ennead, I forget which one) had Mars on the 6th equal house cusp. But the re-location chart where he was living had that Mars on the ascendant. We needed the birth chart location to see the area of life where and how Mars was active. Otherwise, how to tell specifically in what way the Mars energy manifested?

AJ wrote:

The idea is that the force of a solar return wanes shortly before the next return.

This is an interesting idea because I'm now working on President Biden's current and future charts, and it seems that the primary configurations in the solar return happen before the final month or two. Then non-angular solar planets (not seemingly so important) come to the ennead angles. (I'll be posting these charts on the sidereal Biden topic within a day or two.)

I'm not sure, however, if the future solar return starts to check in, or if there is simply a waning of current energy. If we watch our own birthdays, the last few days seem to be kind of an ending and a bit chaotic, like everything is in the process of being wrapped up. I always tell my family, "Let's celebrate your birthday the day after the actual date. That day will feel a lot better."

To me, this whole concept sounds like a syzygy.
Considering the New Moon or Full Moon before our birthday or even before birth.
As if our birthday was included in a 'container' by the lunar phase.
Not sure how this can be interpreted in relation to the Solar return.

AJ wrote:Yes, this is from parampara, or as you say contemporary practice. I have not read this in the Shastras either. Yet, not all practice can be contained in the ancient texts.

Thanks, AJ. Without commenting on the usefulness of this particular practice, let me just point out that contemporary oral teachings are not necessarily synonymous with tradition (parampar??). If there is no trace at all of a given notion in the extant texts, the balance of probability is that it isn't very old. Again, that doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't useful.

Therese Hamilton wrote:I'm not sure, however, if the future solar return starts to check in, or if there is simply a waning of current energy. If we watch our own birthdays, the last few days seem to be kind of an ending and a bit chaotic, like everything is in the process of being wrapped up. I always tell my family, "Let's celebrate your birthday the day after the actual date. That day will feel a lot better."

Hey Therese: Personally I don't over think it. The new solar period/year begins at exact conjunction, and the current for all intents and purposes is in force until then. It's never come up in my practice to try and time a solar return right up to a birthday. I am curious about your conclusion on Biden's returns, so I look forward to your post.

It would be an interesting research project, if you could collect enough charts of folks that had a hard event in the days before or just after their birthday that is.

All of this is a bit off Aimer's original question.

Here are some other thoughts along what you have expressed.

In terms of waning energy one could liken it to a sandhi, the transition point between signs and houses; a short period of transition, the changing of energies. Notably considered a weak and unfortunate position.

The transiting Sun is in effect in applying orb to its natal place at solar return, so why not apply the same logic. Using a tight orb of 3-5 degrees, the few days before a return as the Sun is applying it grows stronger until exactitude; to take on/initiate the new energy.

The symbolic images around New Years when the closing year is an old man and the new year is a new born is appropriate.

The syzygy, or lunation cycle Ouranos pointed out is applicable too in that sense that all returns are a 360 degree cycle.

Be Well.