The Jays and Rangers start a 4 game run tonight in Toronto, with both competing for a spot in the playoffs. All four games are scheduled to start at 7:07PM EDT. I spent this morning cleaning up my Bonatti On War notes, they can be found here if anyone's interested. This is the chart for the first game, assuming things begin on time. Away Team - Challenger - Rangers
L1 is Jupiter (superior planet) retro (weak) at 15 TA (own term) in the 2nd (succedent)
Moon sep from Venus (assigned to away team) and Jupiter is square to and received by Venus in 6th (a debility?)
Neptune in 1st (hopeful?)
Mars is in opposition to the 1st (team will not execute things properly)
Uranus (malefic) in the 2nd (things will go wrong for the team)
Moon in 6th - possibility of injury for away team

Judgement:
intrinsically strong (superior planet) with good skills (term) but weakened by being retro and only of moderate strength being succedent. Possibly over confident (Neptune, term). Possible injury Venus and Moon in 6th.

Home Team - Defender - Blue Jays
L7 is Mercury (inferior planet) retro (weak) at 9 VI (domicile) in the 7th (angular) combust
Moon applying to square of Jupiter (L1)
Mars in the 7th in detriment with Venus throwing her sextile to the 7th
Sun in 7th (authority for them)

Judgement:
intrinsically weak (inferior planet) with very good skills (domicile) but weakened by being retro and greatly harmed by being combust

Outcome: Much as I hate to say it, I think the L7 being inferior, retro, and combust combined with the Moon applying to Jupiter, who receives her into her place of exaltation (TA) by triplicity means the Jays will lose. Although no idea what happens when the planet that is supposed to be given to L7 is actually L1? Does the Moon hand the game to the Jays?? My head hurts!

Ouch...just had another thought, the Jays and Rangers are both competing for one of 3 playoff spots in the same league; at the moment, the Jays hold the 2nd spot but only by 1.5 games; Texas could take the spot away from them. I wonder if that counts as "property" and this is really a besiegement (1st-4th) situation?

Hi there - I am experimenting with John Frawley's method at the moment. In this match, the Blue Jays seem heavily favoured to win by pundits (I use the Pickwatch site to identify the favourites and underdogs).

I think Frawley would say that the favourites are going to win here, so the Blue Jays have the edge using his method.

The key is the partile aspect between the Moon and Lord 1 Jupiter, with the Moon just about to perfect. This is, in my understanding of Frawley's method, decisive testimony. Frawley gives the ascendant lord to the favourite.

The Rangers have some strength. Their lord is closely conjunct the descendant (the underdogs' angle along with the IC). However, this testimony, whilst strengthening the Rangers' play, does not suggest enough to overcome the home team. (Note that Frawley does not use essential dignity, so Mercury's placement in it's own sign has no relevance.)

There may be some importance in the lord of Fortune being fairly close to the ascendant. Frawley puts importance on the Lord of Fortune as a key significator.

Janegca,
I am curious. Why do you give the AS to Texas?

The Jays opening game at St-Louis March 30th had Saturn at 2d36' in Pisces on the cusp of the 7th in partile trine to Mars in Cancer. A game they won.
Right now, Saturn is coming back to the same position at 2d40'.
This seems like a crucial moment in their season.
I tend to give the advantage to the Jays in this 1st game.

Ouranos

Hi astralwanderer,

I’m trying to follow Bonattl with the help of Bernadette Brady”s and Lee Lehman ideas. They give the 1st to the challenger. Lee Lehman did write that in baseball she considers the home team as the challenger because the home team pitcher throws the first pitch to start the game;however, technically he can’t throw the pitch until an opponent steps into the batter’s box so I give the first to the away team, if they don’t show up there is no game.

The key is the partile aspect between the Moon and Lord 1 Jupiter, with the Moon just about to perfect. This is, in my understanding of Frawley's method, decisive testimony. Frawley gives the ascendant lord to the favourite.

Agree it’s a key aspect. My problem is that according to Bonatti/Brady the planet the Moon applies to goes to L7, but they don’t say anything (that I can find) about what happens if that planet is L1. Jupiter is in the 8th from Mercury (L7) so perhaps it is of no use to L7 or it means a Ranger injury wii help the Jays. Just have to see how the game plays out.

Ouranos wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:15 pm Janegca,
I am curious. Why do you give the AS to Texas?

The Jays opening game at St-Louis March 30th had Saturn at 2d36' in Pisces on the cusp of the 7th in partile trine to Mars in Cancer. A game they won.
Right now, Saturn is coming back to the same position at 2d40'.
This seems like a crucial moment in their season.
I tend to give the advantage to the Jays in this 1st game.

Ouranos

Hi Ouranos, I give the 1st to the away team as I consider them to be the challenger. Lee Lehman did write that in baseball she considers the home team as the challenger because the home team pitcher throws the first pitch to start the game;however, technically he can’t throw the pitch until an opponent steps into the batter’s box so I give the first to the away team, if they don’t show up there is no game.

Re: Saturn. I don’t think he is close enough to the ASC although they are in the same bounds.

It is a crucial series for both teams, fingers-crossed the Jays win.

Well, as a Jays fan, that was painful to watch; they lost: 3 to 10. The game actually started at 7:09 which made a slight difference, it pushed Mercury (L7) into the 6th, doing away with the one thing it had going for it, strength.
Looking over my initial remarks:

1. Jays: Moon applying square to Jupiter (L1) gives Jupiter to L7 - certainly did not hand the Jays a win. So one point against assigning the planet the Moon applies to, to L7 IF that planet is also L1 (and possibly L2 or L10 given those also belong to the L1 side)
2. Jays: Sun in 7th (authority for them) - nope, didn't seem to favour the Jays, the umpiring was pretty even
3. Jays: Mars in the 7th in detriment - I missed the partile Mercury/Mars semi-sextile in equally-ascending signs thus acting as a conjunction. The Jays certainly had trouble executing their skills.
4. Rangers: Jupiter is square to and received by Venus in 6th (a debility?) - nope, no injuries on the Rangers side
5. Rangers: Moon in 6th - possibility of injury for away team - ditto
6. Rangers: Possibly over confident (Neptune, term). Possible injury Venus and Moon in 6th. - nope, none of this seemed to apply
7. In General: the planets in the 1st and 7th did not appear to have much influence, possibly they can be ignored unless actively engaged in an aspect.

There was a minor injury to a Jays player, Brandon Belt was pulled out of the line-up in the 6th Inning due to "back muscle spasms". According to Lee Lehman's The Book of Rulerships, Lilly gives back weakness to the 6th House and the small of the back to Mars. In the chart, Mars is in Libra in aspect with L7. Libra is on the 8th (2nd from 7th) so represents available resources, Mars removed one.

As to why no injuries involved the Rangers I can only speculate it had to do with the Moon separating conjunct Venus which gave Venus to L1, she's a benefic in the 4th from Jupiter (L1), in Jupiter's triplicity and face so an injury strengthened (angular) rather than harmed them? She is also L8 (in charge of the Jays (L7) resources) so she gifted the Rangers (L1) a resource belonging to the Jays (L7) by removing Belt from their arsenal?

On to tonight's game.

Game 2 is also set for 7:07pm, the chart is almost the same: Away Team - Challengers - Rangers
L1 Jupiter (superior planet) retrograde (weakness) at 15 Taurus (term) in 2nd (succedent)
Moon separating from square of Uranus

Judgement: play pretty much the same; not quite sure how to handle Uranus, as a separating aspect it reveals the past and the Rangers win could be considered an "upset" as the Jays were the favourite. Will it add some erratic behaviour to their play tonight? Don't think it represents another upset as Moneyline odds are almost 50/50.

Home Team - Defender - Jays
L7 Mercury (inferior planet) retrograde (weakness) at 8 Virgo (domicile) in 6th (cadent) and combust
Moon applying to opposition of Saturn (peregrine, opposite sect) without reception

Judgement:
play possibly a little better since the Mars/Mercury partile semi-sextile is no more, but they are still dealing with the major weaknesses of cadency, retrogradation, and combustion.. I'm not sure what gift Saturn can give them, problems behind the scenes for the Rangers? More apt to cause the Jays grief (opposition, in the Jays 6th)

Outcome: Jays will probably lose again but maybe not quite as badly

For tonight, I am testing a different system but based on your analysis Janegca, the odds seem to favor the Rangers again.
More later...

Two for two, janegca. So far, you've done a stellar job (literally & figuratively)!

janegca wrote: I’m trying to follow Bonattl with the help of Bernadette Brady”s and Lee Lehman ideas. They give the 1st to the challenger. Lee Lehman did write that in baseball she considers the home team as the challenger because the home team pitcher throws the first pitch to start the game;however, technically he can’t throw the pitch until an opponent steps into the batter’s box so I give the first to the away team, if they don’t show up there is no game.

When I first started following along, your detailed, technical reasoning for which team qualifies as a "challenger" piqued my interest. Appears you might be on to something.

Thumbs up Janegca!
I did not watch the game. When they say the game starts at 7:07pm, is it the first pitch or something else?


Ouranos: Did you know baseball is the first sport in the Bible?
Jason: No, I didn’t.
Ouranos: Yep, in Genesis it says, “In the big inning!”


Bonatti had this aphorism 'At a baseball game if the ball keeps getting bigger and bigger it will hit you'
That must be a case of shutting down the Lights!

Let's see what tonight has in the dugout for us - Game 3.

Jason wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 8:14 am Two for two, janegca. So far, you've done a stellar job (literally & figuratively)!

lol...two charts do not a system make but thanks

When I first started following along, your detailed, technical reasoning for which team qualifies as a "challenger" piqued my interest. Appears you might be on to something.

We will see.