I'm surprised that no one has posted anything on the catastrophic flooding that has just happened in Libya. Up to 20,000 people are feared to have died after raging floods swept through eastern Libya caused by Mediterranean Storm Daniel (Cyclone Daniel). The vast majority of deaths from the flooding have occurred in the city of Derna were dams failed (10 September), releasing walls of water through the city. Entire neighborhoods were wiped out. The UN has called this event a "calamity of epic proportions."

I don't usually work with mundane astrology, but set up the full Moon chart for Derna, Libra prior to this event.



From the full Moon chart on August 31 (sidereal, but the tropical planets and stars are exactly the same in relation to the MC) the obvious signature for this catastrophe are the Moon's nodes (Rahu and Ketu) in the degree of the MC/IC in square to Pluto below the western horizon. The MC degree at 3 Aries 22 (sidereal-Krishnamurti) cojoins a cluster of fixed stars in Pisces, the Fishes and Eridanus, the River:

3 Ari 22 M.C.
3 Ari 18 N.Node Mean Rahu (4' orb to M.C.)
3 Ari 03 Al Pherg, eta Pisces, the Fishes
3 Ari 22 e Eridanus, the River
3 Ari 27 sigma Pisces
3 Ari 45 xi Pisces
3 Ari 59 omicron Pisces

Robson calls Al Pherg the "Head of Typhon." The Arab words for this star mean "an outpouring of water and mouth of a vessel used for liquid." Diana Rosenberg links this area of the sky to natural disasters. I don't know if the position of the ascendant lord is important in lunar phase charts, but in this chart Moon, lord of the ascendant Cancer, is in the 8th house of death with Saturn in Aquarius, the ancient area of watery constellations in the sky. These two planets straddle the EH 8th house cusp. at 11 Aqr 42. It may be this position of Saturn that is causing so many floods around the world at this time:

9 Aqr 28R Saturn 31 August (full Moon) 2023
9 Aqr 30 Ancha theta Aquarius
9 Aqr 59 Sadalmelik alpha Aquarius
10 Aqr 05 Fomalhaut alpha Piscis Australis (the southern fish)

I'm hoping that others will look at this event with various mundane techniques.

Hi Therese,

I've been looking into a method prescribed by Ptolemy in Tetrabiblos (II; XII): Of the Investigation of Weather in Detail recently. It's yielded some striking results in quite a few of the charts I've looked at so far.

To summarize, he instructs us to study the chart of the new or full moon that closest precedes the solstitial and equinoctial sign ingresses. The chart should give indications of the general weather conditions for the season. The lunations that follow, month by month throughout the rest of the season, can be compared to the first chart to identify weather ebbs and flows. (Ptolemy specifically writes that if it's a full moon that precedes the ingress then the succeeding full moon charts should be studied month to month, but I haven't found this to be completely true. Both the new and full moon charts are worth taking a look at, in my opinion.)

The new moon of June 18 (preceding the Cancer ingress) qualifies as the root chart for the method described above. Here it is set for Derna (I work in tropical):
Right away you'll notice that the luminaries are in the 12th (unforeseen, unfortunate events) applying a square to Neptune (watery themes) at the midheaven. Neptune is joined at the MC by fixed star Scheat (29° Pisces - tropical), which has a long reputation for portending disasters, and watery ones specifically. Sirius (14° Cancer - tropical) a star connected to the flooding of the Nile in ancient Egypt, rises.

I could delve further but will leave that up to you or any other reader to explore at your own discretion and move on to the full moon chart that preceded the event (which you also shared):
In this chart, the full moon falls at Saturn's degree in the new moon chart. Saturn rules the 8th in both charts (also note the degree change on the 8th house cusp -- from early in the new moon chart preceding the seasonal ingress, to anaretic at the full moon). And as you noted in your post, the Full Moon chart features both the Moon and Saturn in the 8th. The Moon is generally associated with the common people or masses of people in mundane, Saturn has a longstanding association with drownings and being Rx in Pisces can indicate the failure of structures related to water; the dams. Also have a look at how the Sun rules the ascendant (general condition of the location and its people), the Moon the 12th.

The luminaries in the full moon chart have also just separated from connecting to Jupiter's position in the new moon chart; Jupiter being the ruler of the MC in that initial chart, and co-ruler of much of the 8th house in the full moon chart (due to the majority of the sign Pisces being located there).

The antiscia of Mars in the full moon chart is the degree of Neptune and the Midheaven in the new moon chart.

You also mentioned the prominence of the Nodes in the full moon chart you shared. Barbara Watters describes any planet falling in the exact degree of the nodes, regardless of what sign it is in, as a fateful testimony. She goes on to say the Nodes are sometimes regarded as points that bring sudden calamity to an event. Neptune in the new moon chart is at 27°, the Nodes in the Full moon chart are at 27°

Again, I won't go into further detail about the chart, but I will leave it for you to think about, and if you want to, cast in sidereal to study through the lens of your preferred method.

I've had a long day. I'm beat and need some sleep. Apologies if this post is hard to follow.

Below is a bi-wheel of the new moon of June 18 (inner wheel) with the full moon of August 31, if it helps to make what I'm trying to describe easier to follow.

Jason, very interesting!! It's late tonight, and I wanted to print your post for study tomorrow, but I'm finding that the print feature on this new Skyscript site needs work. The print preview only showed the first page of my message, the first page of your message, and some almost blank pages in between and at the end. Also the "Notify me when a reply is posted" doesn't seem to be working as I didn't receive a notice of your post.

Therese, I'm glad you found my response interesting. Your original post piqued my interest as well. So much so that, despite my exhaustion after a long day, I couldn't help but have a look at the charts.

It's probably a stupid question, but have you checked your email's spam folders to see if the forum notifications are landing there? Mine were initially. I had to put Skyscript on my "safe" list. As far as the printing issue goes, I'm not sure what could be causing that. I don't own a printer. Have you reached out to the site's support team about the issue yet? There's an email address and contact form here.

On the site cieloeterra, the meteorological conditions of each season are examined through the analysis of the New Moon or Full Moon (syzygies) preceding the Sun's entries into Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn with the method of Ptolemy.

http://www.cieloeterra.it/sizigie.html

Here is what they say for Summer 2023 of the Syzygies with an emphasis on the Fixed Stars

Bellatrix rises (nature Mars and Mercury)
In the Middle Ages, this constellation was said to be a direful influence to agriculture, being the “the veri cuttrhrote of cattle” and presaging violent storms and much rain.

Scheat culminates in the Midheaven (Mars and Mercury nature)
Scheat is an especially unfortunate star regarding the sea. It was said to indicate danger from that element in the form of tidal waves or violent storms as per George Noonan. To which we can add the Trans-neptunian Poseidon (floods, water masses) currently at 15 Scorpio sesqui-quadrate Neptune near the Aries Point. And the midpoint Neptune/Poseidon= ASC and POF in the lunar phase of June 18th for Darnah.

Above, we have the 2 most influential Fixed Stars for the season.

With Venus we find the southern Asellus (Mars and Sun nature)
The Asses, Asellus Australis and Asellus Borealis, portend a violent death to such as come under its influence. When they get dim in the sky the indication is for rain according to George Noonan.

With Mercury there are the Hyades (Saturn and Mercury nature) bringers of rain. Saturn dominates in dignity and aspect with the Luminaries and, to a lesser extent, Mercury in dignity with the luminaries and aspect with the Sun. Jupiter and Venus contribute in dignity on the angle and aspect with the Sun and Moon. A period of rain which can be intense and, locally, cold showers is expected .

Fixed Stars sources: https://www.astrologyking.com

Jason wrote:

To summarize, [Ptolemy] instructs us to study the chart of the new or full moon that closest precedes the solstitial and equinoctial sign ingresses. The chart should give indications of the general weather conditions for the season...The new moon of June 18 (preceding the Cancer ingress) qualifies as the root chart for the method described.

Neptune at the MC seems very significant in the June 18 chart. But even more significant is the fact that in the full Moon chart preceding the catastrophic flooding, the Moon is in the degree of Saturn in the June 18 chart. This certainly helps to verify Ptolemy's instructions.

Neptune is joined at the MC by fixed star Scheat (29° Pisces - tropical), which has a long reputation for portending disasters, and watery ones specifically. Sirius (14° Cancer - tropical) a star connected to the flooding of the Nile in ancient Egypt, rises.

You are using wider orbs than I generally use for fixed stars, but nevertheless (also considering the stars in the August 31 full Moon chart), the longitudes of fixed stars are apparently important for weather events. This means we should be routinely checking planet/star conjunctions in lunar phase charts. (For Neptune/MC in the June 18 chart iota Pisces is in the same degree whereas Sheat is 2 degrees away.)

I could delve further but will leave that up to you or any other reader to explore at your own discretion and move on to the full moon chart that preceded the event (which you also shared): In this chart, the full moon falls at Saturn's degree in the new moon chart. Saturn rules the 8th in both charts... (also note the degree change on the 8th house cusp -- from early in the new moon chart preceding the seasonal ingress, to anaretic at the full moon). And as you noted in your post, the Full Moon chart features both the Moon and Saturn in the 8th.

Saturn is the 8th lord sidereally as well (Capricorn).

The Moon is generally associated with the common people or masses of people in mundane, Saturn has a longstanding association with drownings and being Rx in Pisces can indicate the failure of structures related to water; the dams.

Saturn retrograde in tropical Pisces, but among the stars of Aquarius in the watery part of the ancient sky. It's good for us to remember these old rulerships. We tend to get fixated on psychology, but we need these time-tested rulerships for mundane events.

You also mentioned the prominence of the Nodes in the full moon chart you shared. Barbara Watters describes any planet falling in the exact degree of the nodes, regardless of what sign it is in, as a fateful testimony. She goes on to say the Nodes are sometimes regarded as points that bring sudden calamity to an event. Neptune in the new moon chart is at 27°, the Nodes in the Full moon chart are at 27°

The nodes often (or always?) seem to be front and center for mundane events that affect large numbers of people. This is a great test for mean and so-called true node research. The mean nodes are certainly relevant for this event.

Jason, I would hope that you will be giving us additional examples of Ptolemy's technique as severe weather events are likely to continue this year. And Saturn is sitting among fixed stars in the watery part of the sky.

Jason, you wrote:

It's probably a stupid question, but have you checked your email's spam folders to see if the forum notifications are landing there? Mine were initially. I had to put Skyscript on my "safe" list. As far as the printing issue goes, I'm not sure what could be causing that. I don't own a printer. Have you reached out to the site's support team about the issue yet? There's an email address and contact form here.

Not a stupid question, but there were no relevant posts in my spam folder. I tried to send a message on the contact form, but nothing happened when I clicked on the box to send the message.

Therese Hamilton wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:08 pm Neptune at the MC seems very significant in the June 18 chart. But even more significant is the fact that in the full Moon chart preceding the catastrophic flooding, the Moon is in the degree of Saturn in the June 18 chart. This certainly helps to verify Ptolemy's instructions.

Yes, Therese; I wholeheartedly agree.

Therese Hamilton wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:08 pm You are using wider orbs than I generally use for fixed stars, but nevertheless (also considering the stars in the August 31 full Moon chart), the longitudes of fixed stars are apparently important for weather events. This means we should be routinely checking planet/star conjunctions in lunar phase charts. (For Neptune/MC in the June 18 chart iota Pisces is in the same degree whereas Sheat is 2 degrees away.)

With fixed stars, I've found the principles set down by Helena Avelar and Luis Ribeiro on p. 177 of their work On The Heavenly Spheres to be relevant. Namely, the stars function by conjunction only, and because they are luminous objects they possess their own orbs based on their magnitude.

Scheat has an average magnitude of 2.42 so I tend to allow an orb of up to 5° when considering it. Sirius is even brighter. Though of course, the closer the conjunction the more powerful the effect.

Therese Hamilton wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:08 pm Saturn retrograde in tropical Pisces, but among the stars of Aquarius in the watery part of the ancient sky. It's good for us to remember these old rulerships. We tend to get fixated on psychology, but we need these time-tested rulerships for mundane events.

Again, I'm 100% in agreement with you here.

Therese Hamilton wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:08 pm The nodes often (or always?) seem to be front and center for mundane events that affect large numbers of people. This is a great test for mean and so-called true node research. The mean nodes are certainly relevant for this event.

I use mean nodes exclusively, but you make an interesting proposal here. Will you be taking on the mantle of this study? ;)

Therese Hamilton wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:08 pm Jason, I would hope that you will be giving us additional examples of Ptolemy's technique as severe weather events are likely to continue this year. And Saturn is sitting among fixed stars in the watery part of the sky.

If I can find the time I'll definitely try to. :)

Jason wrote:

With fixed stars, I've found the principles set down by Helena Avelar and Luis Ribeiro on p. 177 of their work On The Heavenly Spheres to be relevant. Namely, the stars function by conjunction only, and because they are luminous objects they possess their own orbs based on their magnitude.

I've always felt that stars function only by planetary conjunction, but that's an interesting thought that orbs can be wider than a degree if the star is bright. Then there would be the overlapping of influence since my list of stars has stars located in almost every degree of the zodiac. (Michael Erlewine's 768 fixed stars) But Diana Rosenberg has all of Ptolemy's 1000+ stars in her Secrets of the Ancient Skies.

Therese: The nodes often (or always?) seem to be front and center for mundane events that affect large numbers of people. This is a great test for mean and so-called true node research. The mean nodes are certainly relevant for this event.

Jason: I use mean nodes exclusively, but you make an interesting proposal here. Will you be taking on the mantle of this study?

I've already completed research on the mean/so-called true node. That's why you'll never see me using the "true node." I think all astrologers should be comparing both nodes in their work if they are undecided or think that both work. Astrodienst's ephemeris tables have both nodes which I really like.