Hi ... hoping someone will answer a question on the period of influence for the Sun Ingress charts. Pulled out my old texts and found that if the rising sign in the Aries Ingress chart is:

• Fixed - influence is over the entire year
• Mutable - influence is over 6 months
• Cardinal/Moveable - influence is over 3 months

Does this only apply to the Aries Ingress chart? What if the Aries Ingress is Mutable and the Libra Ingress is Cardinal, will the Libra Ingress only have a 3 month influence or will it influence the next 6 months? Or if the Cancer Ingress is Fixed, will it influence the rest of the year?

Also, in digging out my Mundane texts I find I'm really lagging behind the times, I'm hoping some of you can suggest a few newer texts with possibly some more current approaches. Here's what I currently have on hand:

• Mundane Astrology by C.C. Zain, 1963
• Eclipses by Derek Appleby and Maurice McCann, 1989
• Investing by the Stars by Henry Weingarten, 1996
• Mundane Astrology Astrology Classic Publishings, 2003 includes three books:
  • Mundane or National Astrology by H.S. Green
  • Raphael's Mundane Astrology
  • An Introduction to Political Astrology by C.E.O. Carter
• The Fated Sky: Astrology in History by Benson Bobrick, 2005 (Edit: better listed under 'The History of Astrology' than 'Mundane Astrology')
• Cosmos and Psyche: Intimations of a New World View by Richard Tarnas, 2006

Many thanks

Edit: thought I would add Lee Lehman's Astrology of Sustainability to this list; the book's focus is on the environment but it contains a wealth of information on the handling of Solar Ingress charts as well as references to other events affected by Pluto sign ingresses.

Hi janegca,

The tradition that qualifies an ingress chart's length of influence based on the modality of its rising sign is specific to the Aries Ingress only. So if a common/mutable sign (denoting a 6-month influence) is on the Aries Ingress ascendant, the Libra ingress chart will need to be considered as well -- if a moveable/cardinal sign is on the Aries Ingress ascendant, all 4 quarterly charts are used. However, I've seen some astrologers use all 4 cardinal ingress charts despite this tradition.

You mention having a copy of C.E.O. Carter's Introduction to Political Astrology. Carter makes some very good points about the shortcomings of some of the techniques employed coupled with the complexities astrologers face when working within mundane frameworks in the first chapter of that book. I definitely recommend giving it a read.

As far as material that isn't already mentioned in the list you gave, I'd recommend Ben Dykes translations found in Astrology of the World I & II as a good starting point (though the source texts are not "new"). There are also some great articles here on Skyscript under the mundane section.

I'm also interested to hear of any contemporary book recommendations. Hope some other forum members deliver on that question.

In Tetrabiblos II, Ptolemy mentions 3 approaches
1) The NM or FM preceding an Ingress
2) The NM or FM entering a new sign
3) The Quarter Moons

And he also mentions 2 elements to consider with the Syzygies, the Angularity of the Planets and the Fixed Stars that accompany them.

Tetrabiblos. 2.6, 2.7: « And with regard either to the beginnings or to the more important intensifications of the event, we’ll deduce them from the position of the place of the eclipse relative to the angles. For, if the place of the eclipse falls on the eastern horizon, this signifies that the first symptoms of the event will start during the first period of four months from the time of the eclipse, and that its biggest strength will lie in the first third of the entire period of its duration; if it falls on the mid heaven, in the second four months and the middle third; if upon the western horizon, in the third four months and in the final third (of its duration)».

Notice here that the duration is related to the Sun/Moon relationship rather than to the Ingress. An Eclipse indicative of a longer duration.

Here is an example using the method of Ptolemy
'The earthquake of western Sichuan in 2007' by Marco Fumagalli
http://www.cieloeterra.it/eng/eng.artic ... huan1.html

Check The Life of the Eclipses
------------
For more details on Eclipses
https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse.html
-------------------------
As for the Ingresses, in Uranian astrology, the axis of equinoxes and solstices represent public life and telluric influences. What we are known for.
For example, Donald Trump has Moon/Mercury = Aries Point. He is a perfect example of someone who communicates his changing emotions on a daily basis. It is as if, with social medias, he gave us access to his private diary.

Best to you,
Ouranos

Jason wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:11 pm Hi janegca,

The tradition that qualifies an ingress chart's length of influence based on the modality of its rising sign is specific to the Aries Ingress only. So if a common/mutable sign (denoting a 6-month influence) is on the Aries Ingress ascendant, the Libra ingress chart will need to be considered as well -- if a moveable/cardinal sign is on the Aries Ingress ascendant, all 4 quarterly charts are used. However, I've seen some astrologers use all 4 cardinal ingress charts despite this tradition.

Thank you Jason, saves me some digging.

Jason wrote: You mention having a copy of C.E.O. Carter's Introduction to Political Astrology. Carter makes some very good points about the shortcomings of some of the techniques employed coupled with the complexities astrologers face when working within mundane frameworks in the first chapter of that book. I definitely recommend giving it a read.

Great. He's on my reading plan.

Jason wrote: As far as material that isn't already mentioned in the list you gave, I'd recommend Ben Dykes translations found in Astrology of the World I & II as a good starting point (though the source texts are not "new"). There are also some great articles here on Skyscript under the mundane section.

I'm also interested to hear of any contemporary book recommendations. Hope some other forum members deliver on that question.

Thank you, hadn't spotted Dykes World Astrology. It looks like they provide thorough review of all the earliest authors on the subject. Also, in my web searches I came across Planetary Cycles by Andre Barbault. I'm fairly certain I heard his name mentioned a few times in the STA World Astrology videos so I will most likely pick it up as well.

Thanks again

Hi Ouranos,

Many thanks for the references and the links. I will check them out.

Take care

Just came across The Revised Edition of William Ramesey's Astrologia Munda edited and annotated by Steven Birchfield, in case others are looking for mundane texts.

good thread.... i will just add that the ceo carter book, as memory serves went into trying to understand why astrologers were unable to make a prediction on ww2 with the use of ingress charts.. any book by carter is great.. i do have a copy, but haven't looked at it in many years... the revised edition of rameseys book is one i would like to read.. thanks for that..

james_m wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:45 pm good thread.... i will just add that the ceo carter book, as memory serves went into trying to understand why astrologers were unable to make a prediction on ww2 with the use of ingress charts..

There are 2 possible reasons why they botched it.

1) They got the location wrong. If you're going to cast an Aries Ingress chart for the world then the two best options are:

a) set the location for Ptolemy's World. That would be 37°N00' and 42°E00'
That location is in northwest Iraq near the border of Syria and Turkey. I never made it there but I got close.

b) set the location for the Gizeh Plateau. It should be in your software.
Perhaps it is merely a coincidence but the Great Pyramid exactly quarters Earth's land mass. Call it the geo-center of the world if you want. So 25% of Earth's land is in the northwest quadrant, 25% in the northeast quadrant, 25% in the southeast quadrant and 25% in the southwest quadrant. You can do like I did and print up a world map, get out your exact-o knife and cut the continents out and then put them next to each other.

It's pretty scary.

Any other location would be ethnocentric and lead to false conclusions.

2) They're using the wrong technique. It's one of those techniques that got corrupted by transmission and translation errors.

What they did was cast an Aries Ingress chart for the foundation year of anything: a town, city, county, shire, judet, department, province, state or country.

The rising sign for the Aries Ingress represents the town, city, county, shire, judet, department, province, state or country you're investigating.

For Britain, you can use 925 or 1066. I prefer 1066 which has Scorpio rising or you can follow Ptolemy and use Aries. For the US, it's 1781 and Sagittarius is rising (what a shocker) and that's what Ptolemy said it would if it had existed then.

Then you cast the Mars/Saturn conjunction occurring roughly every 30 years in the sign that represents the political body you're investigating and go from there. Some people wrongly believe you only do it in Cancer but you only do that if Cancer represents the political body you're investigating. You profect the chart just like a natal chart and do your distributions because as we've now discovered not all transiting stars actually do anything and only the stars that operative have any effect and the interpretations of the aspects they make are nothing like natal/mundane interpretations.

In the interim, instead of casting an Aries Ingress chart each year, you cast a chart for the lunation closest to the Ingress. Obviously some of those will be eclipses and if the eclipse occurs in the sign of the political body you're looking at and it is above the horizon then follow the eclipse rules. If it is in your sign but below the horizon or not in your sign, then you treat it as a garden variety lunation. For the monthly play-by-play you cast a lunar return chart.

If a star goes stationary between the lunation and the Ingress then cast a chart for the date/time of that and if more than one goes stationary then cast a chart for the one closest to the Ingress. Obviously you can't cast a return chart for that and I can't find any texts that say what you're supposed to do so I've been using monthly lunations.

Hope that helps.

thanks dc80... where are you getting these ideas from?

i think it would be more helpful for you to demonstrate by giving concrete examples, especially prognostic ones applying future tense... thanks! james