Hello everyone, I’m new here but I have been a lurker for some time

Sorry if this is a vague question but I would like an honest answer based on experience. Is directing the lots useful? Does it ever yield any results (i.e. concrete prediction)?

We can limit the investigation to the PoF only since it can qualify as hyleg and is the most commonly used of all of them. I cannot find any source with examples of directing this particular lot apart from Placidus and Worsdale (who both use a non-zodiacal innovation) and if there is any merit in doing so or not. It’s kinda weird considering that with the Ptolemy Seal of Approval, this part would get more attention lol. Maybe I’m missing something here

Welcome to the forum, Gemato. Since you ask for answers based on experience, I have to say that, unfortunately, I have never been able to make the LoF (or any Lot, though I haven't tried as hard with the others) work reliably in direction. (And even in static delineation of the radix, I find there is a hit-and-miss quality to the Lots that makes me hesitant to use them, much as I'd like to, at least the four most ancient ones.)

This very unreliability was the reason why Placidus (and his followers) invented new ways of calculating the LoF. In my Primary Directions book I quote this from Cooper's 1814 translation:

I willingly confess that, with regard to the ⊕ I have laboured a long time, and have not been able hitherto to find any truth in it.

and also Wilson's (1819) comment that:

[Placidus] could find truth in the planetary configurations, because their effects are founded on the immutable laws of nature, but when he came to investigate the effects of the ⊕ he could “find no truth in it,” because there was none.

I'd be glad to see convincing examples to the contrary, though, if others have such to share.

Welcome Gemato, and thanks for posting this question. I was hoping Martin Gansten would reply. Glad to see he did.

I don't usually work with the lots, but I can relay that last year, another astrologer and I were discussing our use of continuous annual profections (most others seemed to be using static annual profections year to year). This astrologer works with lots, and I don't. They suggested looking at the (continuous)(annual) profections of Fortune and Spirit. I did spend some time, as they'd suggested, looking at them in my own chart and found some striking "hits" (typically I was looking for conjunctions) to radix planets on exact dates of important events. I know It's not directing as you asked about, but it is some relevant Lot work I've noticed. Admittedly, I haven't tested it out further with other charts, but I figured I'd share in case you might be interested.

@Martin Gansten: Thanks so much for the insight and letting me know I’m not alone in the dissenting camp. I was reading Wilson a couple of weeks back in my investigation of this topic and he says the only reason the PoF gave results when Placidus used them was because it had the same declination of the moon, so results that actually belonged to parallels of the moon’s declination, were misattributed to the LoF. But then this doesn’t apply to Worsdale’s iteration. I don’t think any other astrologer has ever used his version in writing.

When it comes to natal delineation I feel like the angularity/cadency of the Lot of Spirit actually does relate to the extroversion/introversion of the individual. But Fortune imo has very limited use in natal delineation. However it works well in horary I’ve found but this might be because horary is the most “symbolic” of all types of astrology.

P.S. Love both your books!

@Jason: That’s very interesting since I almost never profect anything but the Asc and I don’t use continuous profections. If you don’t mind me asking, what kind of events were signified by each? For Fortune it would be financially related but for Spirit would it be emotional?

Gemato wrote: @Jason: That’s very interesting since I almost never profect anything but the Asc and I don’t use continuous profections. If you don’t mind me asking, what kind of events were signified by each? For Fortune it would be financially related but for Spirit would it be emotional?

Hello again Gemato. No, I don't mind sharing a couple of examples that include personal details, as long as you promise not to judge me - ;) Just kidding

1.
At 14 yrs old in the summer of 1993, as the profected Lot of Spirit conjoined my radix Moon, I learned my family would be moving 1500 miles from my place of birth (where I'd lived all my life) a month later. It wasn't under happy circumstances, and the news blindsided me. That was the end of my formal schooling in the public school system as well, I'd just completed the 8th grade.

Probably important to note as well:
I was in a 3rd sign from the ASC profection year (Cancer; Moon as Lord of the year).
My radix LoS is conjunct Mercury (education) and Mars (severance) tightly: Mercury 27° LoS 26° Mars 25°
In the radix Mercury, LoS, and Mars all trine their dispositor - Jupiter. Jupiter sits on the IC of in my chart (roots, family).
My radix Moon makes the tightest aspect in my chart - an applying square to Saturn (0° 28' orb) (Gemini -> Virgo; signs ruled by Mercury).

While I know it sounds like a sad situation (and definitely felt like it was at the time - like my whole world had come apart) - in hindsight I can confidently say it was a HUGE turning point in my life that paved the way for things to come (in terms of me becoming who I am) and ultimately saved me from being trapped in a life that... well, let's just say, I see it as a blessing in disguise these days (I'm leaving out important context because it's too personal for the forum- but just trust me).

2.
At 32 yrs old, in December of 2011 just before Christmas, as the profected Lot of Fortune conjoined my radix 12th house Sun, I was accepted to an in-patient year-long treatment program at a Salvation Army facility (the only program that would take me due to circumstances leading up to that moment). At the time I was homeless and had been a heroin addict for almost a decade. But in that program, during that year, I got clean, felt healthy for the first time in ages and, didn't exactly find god the way they wanted me to (they made us attend Christian chapel service every Sunday and do nightly bible studies), but did start to practice meditation seriously, and began to investigate Taoist and Buddhist texts. I still practice meditation daily to this day.
Also, regarding the "fortune" aspect - at the end of the program I got a decent job, and was able to afford an apartment - the first time I'd had stable employment and finances and a living situation in years.

It was a 9th sign from the ASC profection year for me (Capricorn; Saturn as Lord of the Year).
My radix PoF is in Cancer, along with Jupiter, and square my Aries Sun by sign.


3.
At 43 yrs old, in the Autumn of 2022, as the profected LoF conjoined my 11th house radix Venus, I became a published writer for the first time. The details of how I got the writing gig include an unexpected offer made to me by a respected older (than me) woman who has strong influence in a "scene". Venus is exalted in my chart and aspects both the Moon and Saturn.

My radix PoF is in my 3rd house and trine Venus by sign. PoF is disposed by the Moon.



There are other events I could detail, I've had a kind of crazy life, but I'll leave it at those. Hope that's interesting enough.

Of course, other things were happening to my chart by transit, other profected points, etc. But I think the direct conjunctions lining up perfectly with specific days is worth noting.

So much courage Jason! And you restore my faith in humanity.
Congratulations!


Ouranos

Ouranos wrote: So much courage Jason! And you restore my faith in humanity.
Congratulations!


Ouranos

Thanks, Ouranos. I'm glad that we've become friends.

One of the things with astrology that's been on my mind lately is how black and white a lot of delineation seems to be. My own experience of life is that yes, there are "benefic" and "malefic" occurrences, but all things eventually come to an end. And sometimes the "good" is hidden in the "bad" and vice versa. If astrology shows us anything, it's that life's far from static.

@Jason: Wow! Thank you so much for that honest and very enlightening post! That’s really the type of experience which is so sorely limited in both modern and traditional: actual concrete examples over theorizing. I can’t tell you how much that helped me, will most definitely look further into profecting the lots now

Glad you found it helpful, Gemato. Hope to see you around.

You may already be aware of this article on the PoS, but if not, I thought you might find it interesting.

Jason wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 9:31 am Glad you found it helpful, Gemato. Hope to see you around.

You may already be aware of this article on the PoS, but if not, I thought you might find it interesting.

I loved this article. Thank you for providing it