Martin Gansten wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 7:41 amIf you want to refer to traditional texts (I assume that's what you mean by Horas?), actual references/quotations would be useful, so that others can examine the evidence for themselves.

If you don't already know anything about "Horas" used in classical Jyotish, all of which are listed in this post https://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopi ... 78#p122378
then you shouldn't answer anything at all and try to be clever in the Indian astrology section.

Therese Hamilton wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:14 pmPorphyry is the basis of SriPati quadrant houses of course.

The issue here is not about Sripati at all. The point is that the original sources of North Indian Jyotish (Horas, Samhitas and Siddhantas) themselves are extremely contradictory. After a very long and deep study of the primary sources of North Indian Jyotish, I do not recommend using it at all and not taking anything from it in terms of Indian astrology. It is much better and more correct to completely switch to the national astrologies of Tamil Nadu or Kerala, which were quite isolated in ancient times.

zastreluga wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 1:04 pm If you don't already know anything about "Horas" used in classical Jyotish, all of which are listed in this post https://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopi ... 78#p122378
then you shouldn't answer anything at all and try to be clever in the Indian astrology section.

I see you only joined the forum today (unless the earlier post you refer to was written by yourself under a different alias: the tone is certainly the same). Did you take the time to read the forum rules? If not, please do so now. There won't be a second warning.

Horā is a multivalent Sanskrit word (borrowed from Greek), but in the 35 years I have spent studying the tradition, I have never seen or heard it used to signify a class or category of texts. Perhaps such a usage exists somewhere, but my question mark was not unjustified.

There is no historical foundation to your claim of South India having an astrological tradition 'quite isolated in ancient times'.

Martin Gansten wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 2:56 pmHorā is a multivalent Sanskrit word (borrowed from Greek), but in the 35 years I have spent studying the tradition, I have never seen or heard it used to signify a class or category of texts.

This means that you have studied very poorly all these 35 years.

There is no historical foundation to your claim of South India having an astrological tradition 'quite isolated in ancient times'.

And for this you have yet to explore the fundamental difference between the North Indian Horas and, for example, the Kerala “Deva Keralam”, the Tamil “Shiva Naadi Granthas”, “Agastya Naadi Granthas”. And at the moment you are completely incompetent to discuss any of these things seriously.

The tone of the recent posts from zastreluga is out of line with the spirit of friendly interaction and information exchange this forum was set up to facilitate. Since it has continued, regardless of the warning, I am deactivating that account.

Just for the information of anyone who may be reading this exchange now or later, not only have I studied the Devakerala nāḍī texts, I actually wrote my PhD thesis partly on them. Like other forms of astrology from the Kerala area, they do contain some original ideas (overlaid on standard Indian astrology), but they are not ancient. Text-internal evidence suggests that they date from the 17th century or later.

Wishing you all the best Martin for 2024!
Your contribution to this forum is valuable beyond estimation. With your knowledge but more so with your attitude.

Blessings,
Ouranos

What a lovely message, and I totally agree. Martin is such an asset to this forum - and thank you, Ouranos for your ever friendly and informative posts

Thank you Deb!
Your forum is a haven. Keep it opened for the past, present and future of astrology.
Best to you in 2024!
Ouranos

Thanks to both of you, and indeed especially to Deb for keeping Skyscript running.