I'd like to drop a short post to honor the life of American folk singer and social activist Odetta, who would have turned 93 today.

Odetta was born in 1930 in Birmingham, Alabama, which was part of the Jim Crow South. Her father was a steelworker and died when she was only six years old. She went on to become one of the most important artists/activists of the 20th century.** That she accessed her powerhouse voice to sing for justice and left a legacy as a champion of the disenfranchised shows up in her nativity in some fascinating ways:
Born as a Sun-Mercury-Saturn conjunction opposed Jupiter-Pluto on the cusps of the 12th and 6th houses, Odetta seems to me to be a reminder that even the traditionally "unfortunate" houses - which have general meanings of slavery, enmity, and misfortune - can be mined for gold if one seizes the opportunities in their difficulties. That's not to say she didn't come up against things in life. Of course, she did. Read up on her bio if you're interested. But I really believe that this chart and her life give us astrologers a good reason to stop and think about where our arguments about fate vs. free will and traditional vs. modern can lead us. Maybe there are sacred sites where our forks in the road do converge.

I'll leave you all with a version of a traditional folk song that Odetta's performance of, I've always loved: Midnight Special


**Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, and Janis Joplin all acknowledged Odetta as their first major inspiration and influence. Martin Luther King, Jr. labeled Odetta the Queen of American Folk Music.

thanks jason

it is an interesting version of the midnight special with it mutating into 'this little light of mine, i'm gonna let it shine'' towards the end.. i am a bit younger then all those folks influenced by odetta, although i knew about her.. makes sense that martin luther king would refer to her as the queen of american folk music' and others as 'the voice of the civil rights movement'.. i liked what bob dylan said as quoted in the wikipedia page below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odetta

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_Special_(song)

i have often wondered about the role of the voice in music and how it connects astrologically.. i have always thought 2nd house or taurus as having a connection, although my studies in indian astrology have left the door open to it being connected to the 3rd house too.. in odettas chart the moon in taurus is situated relatively favourably as an outlet to that opposition you mention along the 6/12 house axis.. and it is the planet most closely connected by aspect to the ascendant axis too being a bit more then 1 degree out of exact square to the ascendant.. if one incorporates the nodes, there is a grand square in her chart involving that 6/12 axis with the moon again becoming the most obvious outlet to this grand square.. - also there is a sun/moon trine which is like a 5th house - creativity and etc - emphasis.. you see this via where the part of fortune lands in this chart.. again the moon plays an important role symbolically.. the fact it rules the 6th - house of work or service - makes sense too..

mars descending in the chart close to the descendant looks challenging.. apparently she was married and divorced twice.. venus in scorpio is a challenging position for relationships in a generalized way as i see it.. it is sort of out of the picture in this chart, although he is the most elevated planet perhaps also emphasizing her involvement in an artistic outlet as career.. the moon is in a very wide opposition to it - 9 degrees.. the chart is a splash chart according to marc edmund jones..

Jason,

a reminder that even the traditionally "unfortunate" houses - which have general meanings of slavery, enmity, and misfortune - can be mined for gold if one seizes the opportunities in their difficulties.

I looked up at her discography and she was nominated 5 times for a Grammy but never won one. This is what the 6th/12th Houses represents. Maybe, a lack of recognition in a private niche but a universal recognition in a wider world, someone who fits better in a no barrier environment.

The combinations for singing... and she has several of them.
CU + AP = JU Widespread artistic associations. To be joined by many.
ME/UR = CU Dramatic art
ME + UR - VE = MC and NE Rhythmic sense. Singing

Thank you for sharing and Happy New Year!
Ouranos

Hey James,

I think you're on to something with the notion that the Moon is a powerful factor in this instance, though, I hesitate to attribute it to Taurus specifically since I know a few Taurus Moon folk who cannot sing a lick lol! Perhaps the Moon and Mercury (ruler of 5 and disposed of by ASC ruler Saturn) being in mutual application by trine (easy articulation of emotion) while both being connected to Jupiter (co-ruler of 1) makes the difference here. And check this out:

In 1940 Odetta's teacher noticed her vocal talents, “A teacher told my mother that I had a voice, that maybe I should study,” she recalled. “But I myself didn’t have anything to measure it by.”[6] She began operatic training at the age of thirteen.(Wikipedia)

Using profections we see that in 1940 (age 10) Odetta began a Sagittarius year, activating radical Jupiter; ruler of her MC and 11th house, co-ruler of her 1st. The profected Moon was advancing through the segment of her radical 1st that contains Pisces (Jupiter ruled) and made a sextile to the radical Moon in 3. At the same time, profected Jupiter-Pluto sandwiched that radical Moon in 3. (and note how profected Mercury fits into the mix as well):

At 13, the year she began formal training, Jupiter was a timelord again, as the profected ASC advanced through Pisces. This time, the profected Mercury-Jupiter-Moon highlighted the signs on her radical 1st-4th-5th-7th. Profected Mercury-Jupiter on her radical ASC/DESC axis is quite striking, don't you think?:
Note how profected Jupiter-Pluto now highlight radical Mars on the DESC (separations; harsh experiences in interactions w others; losses) which the radical Moon squares. And how Mars in the radix rules the 2nd house (personal resources, and the throat(which gives rise to the voice)). You mentioned her three divorces, and that's definitely fitting for Mars on the DESC, but another thing I noticed while looking at her profections is that the year her father died (1936) the profected ASC had advanced to Leo (conjunct radical Mars). It seems we could say that at least in some sense this major loss she experienced was fuel for the fire that lifted her voice; a resource of hers that she was free to gift to the world (Now look at the profected node in the 13 yrs old profections and consider its radical placement).

Another interesting thing I noted insofar as at 6 yrs old she lost her father, right around 6 days after she was born (think progressions) was when Sun (father) Mercury (radical 4th ruler) Saturn (death) made a triple partile conjunction:

Ouranos! Hello!

Per usual, your planetary pictures analysis is a welcome addition. Thanks for them. :)

I've heard the cadent houses referred to as "liminal spaces" before, and I like that analogy. The Grammy's (and Hollywood-style award shows in general) involve a whole lot of lobbying of the judge's panels on the part of the artist's management and record label. It's political in a sense - insiders schmoozing insiders. If we consider the 10th house as a symbol of both Odetta's management and honors, and look to the 7th as a turned house of authority over that - we find Mars there : /

thanks jason

you make a lot of sense with the use of profections and i like the progression for age 6 too in all of that.. i can't deny any of that, lol... i haven't worked with profections much, but i understand how they work and was looking at them for a time.. i must be a bit like placidus who got tired of them and replaced them with sec progs.. although i probably didn't work with them long enough.. i went one step further and ditched all that for solar arc directions.. regardless of my diversion here, i like what you came up with the profections.. thanks...

the way i see it we are all creative beings meant to be involved in some sort of creative activity.. it is the nature of people on some level.. i am not sure about how much the voice ties into taurus or 2nd house or any of that, but i am certain we are all meant to be creative in some way, shape or form... i think we all have talents of some kind too.. in thinking of the singers i have been most impressed with, flora purim quickly comes to mind... also another women who i work with from time to time and who is singing on a few of my cds also comes to mind... perhaps i could pull up those charts and we could consider this more? i am more prone to instrumental music, however instruments are like a voice too and often times mimic the voice in what they do.. i figured out about myself how i differ from many others musically is that i generally don't listen to lyrics!! that must be in my chart somewhere, lol... some of my musician friends are baffled by this - especially the singer songwriter or folky types... that said when i read bob dylan lyrics i am typically blown away! i just don't listen to the words generally... i have a real attraction to brazilian music and can listen to people like joyce moreno, or ivan lins - my 2 favourite brazilian singers - and i have no idea what they are saying as it is in portuguese!!! unfortunately there are no available astro charts for these people i mention, other then the lady who i have worked with.. i have her chart!

james_m wrote: i must be a bit like placidus who got tired of them and replaced them with sec progs.. although i probably didn't work with them long enough.. i went one step further and ditched all that for solar arc directions.. regardless of my diversion here, i like what you came up with the profections.. thanks...

Heya James,

The way I presented profections here (and elsewhere when I've discussed them on Skyscript) was just a quick and dirty look for the sake of forum discussion. Being that they're repetitive, they aren't a standalone technique (Jane has been posting some proper investigations over in the Traditional sub). So, I can't say I blame you for seeking out other techniques, like progressions, which have a clearer singular quality to them.

I'm inclined to play around with everything. I'm curious, haha. Of course, there are specific approaches I prefer when sitting down with someone, but in my own private time, I try and approach astrology with an open mind. I guess I have the attitude that decoding charts is like working a puzzle: Some people will start with piecing together the edges to form a frame and then work their way inward, and others will sort the pieces by color, work out specific areas, and build from those images outward - either way, there's no "right" way to approach the task. To each their own. It's cool to play around and see what comes out of that, in my opinion. In the end, whatever words or techniques we use when describing astrology are only pale reflections of the truths we understand and attempt to convey. Similar to how a puzzle is just an image and not the essence or reality of that thing itself.

james_m wrote: perhaps i could pull up those charts and we could consider this more?

If you get a thread going for the express purpose of looking at possible musical/creative signatures, I'm sure I'd probably have stuff to say when I check in here in the mornings. :)

thanks jason

i agree with you and i really like your analogies here.. thanks for them and for the wider perspective which i happen to share... i might have been flippant using placidus to take a pot shot at profections, but regardless when it comes to symbolism - i think all of these predictive tools have merit, although not everyone will resonate with the same ones... again, it is much like music to me - so many different ways to explore and express creative ideas that are meant to bring greater meaning and beauty to our lives.. and i do admire the work you've shared when using profections too.. cheers james

James, I was led to the chart of Michael Stipe (R.E.M. frontman; singer-songwriter) this morning and noticed some similarities to the houses correlating with "singing" that you suggested in one of your earlier posts.

(Stipe's chart has a C-rating from Astrodatabank, but I've checked it against some timing techniques, and I'd say it's accurate, or at least close. Also, as to sources: On 24 April 2015 S.C. provided the following: "Further supporting data, in U.S. publication "Esquire", June 2001 issue, Stipe himself mentions Libra rising in his chart while interviewed." [1]. Scroll down in article: "He talked about astrology and how it pertains to the song "Saturn Return." He said that he was a Capricorn, which is usually "the CPA of the zodiac," but that his own birthdate was dignified--given creativity--by a Pisces moon, with Libra rising.")
Note the 3rd house; the ruler of the ASC, and the 2nd located there.
And again, we have the Moon in aspect to Mercury (and Jupiter). This repetition of the Moon showing up in these charts made me muse on the idea of "the guts" - as in - the guts to get up on stage and perform, as well as singing from "the gut." (howling at the Moon?!)(and the Moon: the public?)

Anyway, I'm Out of Time (R.E.M. pun intended) this morning and have to get to work. Two charts isn't much to consider, and by no means leads to anything conclusive, but it does get the old cranium gears turning. Hope you have a cool day :)

Hi Jason, James...this is interesting; I took a look at Doris Chase Doane's Astrology: 30 Years Research and she lists, for "Vocal Musician" the results of a study of 25 charts (not alot, I know) and found that either Neptune or the Moon were prominent in all the charts with Mars prominent in 24 of them.

By "prominent" she means a planet in an angle or closely aspecting the Sun, Moon, or Mercury. In Odetta's chart Neptune is angular and within 1º of an exact square to the MC and 4º of an exact square of the Sun while the Moon is within 2º of an exact square to the Asc and trine to Mercury.

In Stipe's chart, Neptune is with 1º of an exact trine to the MC, in a partile mitigated semi-sextile (conjunct) with the Asc, and within 4º an exact sextile with the Sun while the Moon is within 2º of an exact mitigated (doubled) square with Mars.

So in both charts, the 3 planets most likely to be found prominent for a singer (Moon, Neptune and Mars) were all involved in close aspects and had access to the angles.

jason and jane

interesting! i imagine singers - lead vocalists - will come with any number of set ups, but it is maybe just a coincidence with your example - or maybe not! i like the idea of certain planets being more prominent.. jane lists the moon, neptune and mars from doris chase doanes book..

to go back to the possible connection to 2nd, and 3rd houses, i wonder if this has to do with speech and a focus on speech? a related idea is thinking of the air signs as connecting to 'communication' verses the water signs as being 'mute'.. although we aren't supposed to connect signs with houses a cardinal, or is it a mutable sin in astrology, it makes me wonder.. if you aren't allowed to ruminate publicly, all is lost, especially others impressions of you!

regarding the rem front person michael stripe, those are interesting connections back to what we were talking about with odetta..

i would like to draw attention to a few patterns involving the quintile or 5 series aspect in stripes chart, if the time is fairly close... pof to ascendant and ascendant to jupiter - thus ascendant is at the midpoint of pof-jupiter biquintile or 144 degree aspect.. but more importantly is the sun to moon aspect - another quintile, or 72 degree aspect, and if you use sun houses - moon is in the suns 3rd house here... the 5th harmonic is associated with creative talent and special abilities associated with the planets involved... when i was first looking at this, for some reason i thought the part of fortune was the moon, but realized that was wrong... i fist saw the ascendant to jupiter quintile and then the sun to moon quintile...

the quintile series emphasize the number 5, and has some association with what we think of the 5th house too as i see it, or the 5th sign - lol.. there i go again, mixing house and sign symbology.. bad james... i am likely to find another quintile related aspect in his chart if i keep looking!

perhaps the most interesting connection stripes chart is the moon-ketu conjunction in the 6th in pisces... i see that around the time this might have been posted, there was also a moon-ketu conjunction in the sky..

thanks for continuing on jason and for the additional insights from jane too.. onward and upward..

Hi Jane, Good to see you. :) I appreciate you bringing up the data that Doane generated. I'm unfamiliar with that book, but 30 years of research sounds interesting. I'll have to check it out. Mars being involved so heavily in the 25 charts is interesting. Trying to wrap my head around that, and the best I can come up with is how exhausting being a performer can be. There's certainly a bold and even 'athletic' component to funneling all of one's energy in the way singers do, especially on tour (another martial element, possibly?) Interesting too that we often think of the singer as the "leader" of the band. And also that Mars is in detriment in Taurus (the throat) - and there's a symbolism in that which also seems fitting; shows often being canceled due to throat or vocal issues, or even just general "burnout."

Aside from that- I'm looking forward to your study of Queen Victoria's life. I've been loving your thread over in the trad sub.

James, Please say more about quintiles if you can. I've known of them for years, but usually stick to the Ptolemaic contacts. None of what I've ever read about quintiles (and other 'minor' aspects) has seemed like it has teeth for me (in the sense I can bite and it bites back). But I'm currently in an "exploration" phase and am more than open and willing to entertain things I've disregarded up until now. :)