Hi everyone,

I hope you're keeping well. I have a random question about a medical horary and I hope that someone might have some insight. The querent's father was diagnosed with bladder cancer, and was recommended a specific treatment (this was dependent on the cancer not spreading, so she ran chart #1 to see if the treatment would work). In the chart you can clearly see the 6th house of disease blocking her father from the treatment. The physician results came back that the cancer had spread into the wall of the bladder but had not spread throughout the body. In sheer panic, and before the results came back to say that it had spread but not spread throughout the body, she asked two additional questions. Will he be okay (chart #2) and then also will be okay in 2024 (chart #3). I know that normally this is way to many charts but wanted to look at them for her anyway.

My question is specifically related to chart #3. I know for bladder is it normally represented by the 8th house. I did quite a bit of research on this but I also know that the 8th house is represented by death. How do I (as the reader of the charts), know the difference between the bladder being represented by the 8th house versus her father being at risk of passing away?

I'm happy to post the charts but really it was that specific question that I was wondering about for my own learning.

Many thanks for any insight.

WJ

Hello Wisdom Joy,

I do not see any charts in your post. But here is what I would be looking at.

I would investigate the 1st for stamina and vitality along with the Sun, 8th for surgery, the 10th for treatment and the axis 6th (acute) vs the 12th (chronic). The MO for 'functioning' and mental condition.
Check also Oriental vs Occidental to the SU positions of the concerned planets as Oriental is new, fresh, young, acute vs Occidental is old, decaying and chronic.
Part of Sickness AS+MA-SA
Part of Death SA+H8-MO
----------
Check also the midpoints
MA/UR = surgery
MA/SA = sickness and main formula for death
PL is also involved with replacement or removal of organs.
--------------
I also recommend this article

Geeta Jha - Astrology of recovery from diseases
https://www.speakingtree.in/search/reco ... om-illness

Dorotheus, 6.6 “On those growing ill.” Cardinal signs indicate an acute illness, mutable signs show an illness of medium duration, and fixed signs “afflict with a steady and long-lasting disease.” (Of Illness, Nina Gryphon)

Hope this will be helpful,
Ouranos

Maybe you could take Scorpio for the bladder instead of the 8th:

Nicholas Culpeper wrote:Under the Scorpio are gravel and stone in the bladder, inflammations and ulcers there…
(Nicholas Culpeper “Astrological Judgement of Diseases from the Decumbiture of the Sick”, Liber II Chapter 11 part 2 number 8; accentuation by me)

altough Saunders writes of the 8th too:

Richard Saunders wrote:Luna […] Bladder […]
Scorpio and the 8th House […] Bladder
(„The Astrological Judgement and Practice of Physick” Astrological Classics pages 47 and 48)

Some e.g. Oscar Hofman take also Libra (and the 7th) for the bladder. Hofman also writes that Lady Moon is significant for the bladder.

I do not want to confuse you but if you cannot find anything significant by the former rules maybe it is meaningful to consider another attribution to the angles as Dorotheus writes in Carmen Astrologicum Book 5 chapter 42 number 34 (and following):

1st: doctor
4th: healing and treatment by the permission of God
7th: reason for the illness (because opposite to 1st)
10th: patient

Dorotheus recommends this for decumbiture charts. Look for fortunes and/or infortunes in this houses.

Huge thank you both for your analysis. What I'll do is post the charts later with my full analysis on it. I didn't want to post the full charts as I had such a specific question. And everywhere I checked everyone keeps saying the bladder represents the her dad's 8th house. I'll post them shortly. Many thanks.

This is the first chart where she asked if the treatment would be working. The family went back to the doctor in the new year and they confirmed that it had spread in the bladder. So still localized which is fantastic, but the treatment they the question was based on actually is no longer applicable which is why she ran an additional chart.

I am not familiar with medical horary in great deal. I like career and relationship charts the best. what I've been told is that when the doctor assigns a treatment that's when you run the chart. The doctor did say that they were going to confirm if there was additional spread and the treatment options might spread so maybe this is the only chart that can be referenced.

Additional context:

Before going back to the doctor she obviously was incredibly scared and ran two additional charts. In my experience the charts always tell the same story of they show a void moon (which she saw in other charts she ran). The reason why L1 ran even more charts is partly because of how the healthcare experience played out. First there was a two options for treatment and there was 4 doctors weighing in and just multiple instances of going back and forth between chemo and radiation and surgery. TBH the dad never wanted to do surgery anyway and ion the end 7 medical professionals said chemo and radiation is better vs two that said surgery.

Sharing this chart simply as an FYI: So at this time the doctor had recommended one course of treatment that the family later found out was no longer any option due to the cancer being Stage 2 instead of 1.

Analysis in the event that there is some validity to it:

L1: Venus, and person who asked the question
L4: Moon, their father
L9: Saturn, and fathers L6and there is a 6th house planet which is mercury sitting there.
L1, Moon, and father's L10 of treatment
L10, Saturn, which is fathers L7 of physicians

- Moon + Venus approaching a conjunction but there is interference from saturn (L6)-- so I originally read this as confirmation of the first option of treatment not the potential others.
- Venus is in detriment in scorpio so weaker (which is why I assumed this chart may not be valid in the sense that the treatment was no longer applicable given the advancement. Maybe I read this wrong but I think the interference referenced above is a pretty clear indicator)
- Moon has light dignity and my assumption is that the conjunction would render the chart positive regardless
- Saturn tells me the disease is medium to long term
- Saturn is not in detriment or retrograde so its not "extra evil" as they say
- "Good signs of health and recovery for the ruler of the Ascendant and the Moon: Neither is conjunct, square, or opposite Mars or Saturn, or any badly disposed planet; both are direct, free from combustion, swift in motion, not peregrine [NG: out of their domicile, exaltation, triplicity, terms, or faces], nor in their fall or detriment; neither are in the sixth, eighth, or twelfth houses, nor in aspect with their rulers."
- saturn is sitting in taurus so fixes shows longer signs
- moon in libra and cardinal shows not as long
- in terms of timing I believe I would need to look at the difference between the moon and Venus in degrees

this is what I referenced for my analysis on all three charts: https://horoskoop.ee/blogposts/horary-a ... ss/75/8979

This is the second chart: Will her dad be okay was the question but she was a asking about will he get the right treatment and beat the cancer:

My assumption is this is the chart that I need to spend my time analyzing. This is outside of the option 1 treatment and treatment and a cure in general.

What stands out to me/ my analysis on the situation:

L1 is sun (the child who asked the question)
L4 is Venus (the father the question was asked about)
L6 (L9 turned is the disease)
L7 (L10 turned is the doctors)
L8 (L11 turned is the bladder itself but I also know that it can be death -- the reason why I don't want to jump to the conclusion is this person actually has zero symptoms to date, is in pretty good shape, doctors provided feedback that their age may be 83 but biologically they present as 63 max).
L1 is sun but it also represents the dad's treatment.

Things that stand out to me in the chart analysis

Venus is sitting in L4, and just left mars and headed into sag-- to be this is a really great sign because the dad was in detriment before and no longer is. There is a bit of dignity now in term. I think this is because this man didn't have any symptoms and the diagnosis was a huge surprise and basically they are lucky that it was caught. That's my only explanation for this.

Moon is sitting in the L2 (11th house for father which I don’t have any point of significance here. In the 11th house is a friend/ friends. a family friend and head of the urology unit advised them later to do chemo and radiation versus surgery. Moon has dignity by triplicity and is bringing the father towards the treatment. The reason why I didn’t consider the 0 degree separation from Jupiter is being if the separation happened in the last 12 min then its still considered an application (learned that from sky script on another chart- which I checked and confirmed).

The sun and the treatment has lighter dignity, but the positives are that it receives the moon by triplicity and detriment and also receives Venus.

The 6th house of disase is approaching the sun through a transfer of light from the moon. and this is done through two trines and also positive although small dignity. This tells me that the chart is rendering a positive result.

The other piece that stood out to me is the Venus is sitting in the ruler of the disease although not in the 6th house. Vice versa on Jupiter in the 10th which is the dads l7 and represents the doctors. Jupiter does have some dignity.

The north node is hovering by the doctors as well and the south node is by him. But maybe there is some luck with the treatment they recommended and the options?

post deleted.

also just to clarify they were choosing between chemo and radiation and surgery and they chose chemo and radiation. but before this in chart 1 they were considering another treatment when they thought it was stage 1.

Wisdom Joy,

Too many charts around the same question. You will have to make a choice on what you know of the matter.
What I would concentrate on is
1) The Moon last aspect (coming from)
2) The Moon next aspect (going to) and relative to the 10th House cusp (treatment). If that's what you are looking for.

Best to you,
Ouranos

Agreed they asked too many charts, which tbh is fine imo. I can’t stop people. I’m back to my first question though. When is the 8th house considered the bladder versus death. Wouldn’t I be also looking at the 8th house to see if the bladder improves?

Wouldn’t I be also looking at the 8th house to see if the bladder improves?

Considering his age, to improve sometimes mean to be able to eat and walk to the bathroom, which is huge.
I would still focus on the treatment (10th House). Death is a huge step and I do not know your position in this matter, if you feel comfortable enough to deal with this question.