in the past few weeks 2 events have happened of significance... israel bombed the iran embassy in damascus and iran responded by bombing a few military spots in israel.. it's a bit tricky defining the time for the 2nd event, while the first event appears rounded off to 5pm local damascus time.. both charts are in sidereal krisnamurti ayanamsa... also fwiw - israel did not announce the attack beforehand, while iran did... it's an interesting difference to consider when considering all this... also the attack on the iran embassy in damascus killed 16 or more people... the attack on israel has killed no one as it was aimed at the military bases where the april 1st attack on damascus originated from..

the chart for israels bombing of the iran embassy is shown directly below..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_b ... n_Damascus



if one treats this like a battle chart it would appear teh strength is in the defendant - 7th house - iran... some countries condemned israel at the un over this, but some significant players didn't... these types of international moves are worth following and generally aren't articulated in the msm..

below is the chart i have speculated for the time of the launch of the first wave of drones from iran..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Iran ... _in_Israel
i am using tehran as the location and using 2330 hours as the time.. .. iran doesn't use dst, but israel does... i have gotten the time of 11pm israel local, for the timing of the start of this.. please correct me if you think i have it wrong.. based off the info below, i am using an 1130pm, or 2330 hours for this... below the quote is the chart for this to tehran..
https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-laun ... intercept/
"IDF Spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari first confirmed at 11 p.m. that the attack, anticipated for several days, had begun. He later said Iran also fired missiles at Israel, while “numerous” fighter jets were in the sky countering Tehran’s attacks.

Sirens began sounding in southern Israeli communities around 1:42 a.m., and soon after extended to large swaths of the country. Loud booms sounded across the north and the south as well as in Jerusalem and many towns across the West Bank."



in this chart again it appears iran has the upper hand astrologically, if we treat iran as first house and israel as 7th...

astro thoughts on this anyone??

james_m wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:17 pm if one treats this like a battle chart it would appear teh strength is in the defendant - 7th house - iran... some countries condemned israel at the un over this, but some significant players didn't... these types of international moves are worth following and generally aren't articulated in the msm..
....astro thoughts on this anyone??

Hey James: Here are a few thoughts. Just using WSH's and the visible planets.

Taking the first event, the aggression of Israel against Iran, as the beginning of the direct and current conflict between them as the war chart.
I agree that Iran is the 7th ruled by Saturn and Israel is Leo ruled by the Sun. Saturn is in a way better position than the Sun in this chart.

The Moon's last aspect was a trine to stationing Mercury. This would go to Israel. Mercury is not a lot of help to Israel since it is about to go retrograde, is cadent, and is void of course, before it traverses back into Pisces, where it is in fall. Mercury rules the 11th house of friendly international alliances and the 2nd house of international status. We have seen Israel's international reputation tank even before this began, and more so since the attack on Iran's embassy.
The Moon's next aspect, a sextile to Mars, so Iran gains a Mars. Mars being in the 7th with Saturn, you could bet they would retaliate and Iran's confidence is very high. Mars rules the 9th house of foreign affairs and the 4th house of the homeland. They are sure of themselves in their right to self-defense and retaliation, and in the opinion of most of the global community.

When Iran launched their attack on April 13th, transiting Mars was exactly opposing the ascendant of the war chart, and exactly squaring the MC. Transiting Mars is also applying to a sextile with Jupiter in the 9th and the transiting Sun (Israel) is now entering exaltation in Aries in the 9th house, so perhaps it will, at least for awhile, be paused or end diplomatically. The Sun moving from the 8th to the 9th could also account for the limited carnage from Iran's attack. Israel also had a number of countries, like the US and the UK, help in their defense.

Be Well.

thanks for your feedback here aj.. it's helpful.. i am presently exploring combined charts for israel and iran... because there are at least 3 charts for isreal - 4pm, 41508pm and 437pm ( all 1948 tel aviv), and i have 2 charts for iran - feb 1, 1979 933am and april 1st 1979, 3pm ( both tehran), it is made more complicated..

my best results on the limited amount of time i have put into this are off the 2 charts for these 2 countries that i personally like the best - 4pm for israel and feb 1st chart for iran... below is a picture of the combined chart ( 4pm israel and feb 1st iran) in sidereal krishnamurti.. hopefully you can read the positions cleary..



on the iran attack of april 13th 2024, there was a fairly close mars- pluto 45 in the transits.. this combo happens to hit onto the combo pluto.. hopefully you can see this off the 90 degree wheel shown below with transits on the outside and combo chart on the inside..



aside from this obvious connection to the combo chart - i am going to call is combo 1 chart (4pm israel with feb 1 933am iran).. the other obvious connection to combo 1 chart is with the transit of rahu/ketu which is right on the midheaven axis.. hopefully this is visible in the biwheel chart below... bear in mind i am only showing rahu symbol for both rahu and ketu... as it happens ketu is at 21 virgo while rahu is at 21 pisces...



i have a lot more to say about all these charts., but i am beginning here.. i will see if i can formulate some type of prediction off the use of this combo 1 chart in the near future..

is see israel has followed it up almost immediately with an attack on iran in the news at the moment... on that later..

with regard to my previous post, i wanted to also include the transit data from the 5pm april 1st israeli attack on the iran embassy in damascus in relation to this combo 1 chart i was talking about earlier today too... down below are the transits on the outer wheel to the combo 1 chart on the inside off this embassy attack event... you'll note that there is a moon-uranus square in the combo 1 chart... that is moon in the 6th whole sign - ruler of the 8th) is square uranus in the 9th.. the degrees are moon at 12 taurus and uranus at 14 leo... as it happens mars is in transit at 13 aquarius at the square and opposition to these 2 and brings them closer by degree...

trying a different size here.. see how it goes..

sidereal....

i continue to contemplate these charts with an idea to offer some type of predictions off them..

i have been pondering the iran feb 1, 933am chart set to tehran which is the arrival of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini via plane from paris france where he was living in exile.. you can read about this here.. the 930am time in the article is adjusted to 933am in nic campions book of world horoscropes.. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhollah_ ... rn_to_Iran

this all came out of a a larger dynamic referred to as the iranian revolution which began approx a year prior - jan 7th 1978.. you can read about this here..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution

as i had done previously, i have tried to verify the radical nature of the chart thru looking at events and also important people since the advene of khomeini's return.. i did this previously as well with the april 1st chart for iran and this is why i continue to favour this feb 1st chart for iran... it is truly an important and significant moment in time that seems to capture an important part of the dynamic of present day iran... perhaps i can elaborate by considering this chart and discussing it some astrologically... it would be great if others wanted to do so as well... below is the chart i refer to..



my comments are my own.. of course i am mostly ignorant of iran and iranian history, and i live in a world where as someone pointed out on another thread recently - propaganda is very prevalent... i am not sure how any of us escape this, but it goes with not having a first hand experience of different cultures and still wanting to understand them... i truly wish there was an iranian astrologer at skyscript who could help me out here!! maybe that wouldn't work either, lol..
the fact is astrologers work with the symbolism they have to the best of their abilities and may or may not have a great understanding of the particular culture, history and etc. etc...

perhaps a most interesting part of this chart and for me personally is the concept of mutual reception whereby 2 planets in each others sign are said to benefit from the exchange... maybe this works in horary where you are trying to answer a question, but the concept has generally been challenging for me to properly understand...for example moon in pisces on the ascendant with jupiter in cancer in the 5th... on its own this would indicate to me a fairly content people, given over to contemplation and a more idealistic and perhaps religious, faith based approach to life... this is compounded by the fact iran is a theocracy where the religious leaders are the symbolic and perhaps de facto leaders of the country, since 1979... i will get to that later.... jupiter in cancer suggests a supportive environment that nurtures family life and tradition... being in the 5th, perhaps their is greater artistic emphasis in everyday life, or an appreciation for this more generally... how exactly is the mutual reception of these 2 bodies - moon and jupiter - supposed to work here??

then there is the mutual exchange of sun and saturn, perhaps a more problematic exchange given saturn is in leo in the 6th, while sun is in the 11th... could this indicate the relationships iran forms with other countries, signified by the 11th, is much more challenging because of the egocentric nature of saturn in leo in the 6th?? or is the mutual exchange supposed to cure all the negatives that seem to be captured in saturn in leo in the 6th? apparently a malefic in the 6th or 12th as some benefits according to indian astrology, but that is yet another concept that i have heard and read rationalized, but i am still having a hard time comprehending it!

we also see the 2 planets that rule all the angles in the chart, are in opposition to one another - jupiter and mercury... usually an opposition or hard aspect between these 2 planets complicates the thought processes where an unhealthy balance is much harder to achieve... perhaps this might explain how on the one hand the iranian people want to put faith in their religious leaders, but on the other, they want to be left to live more freely and to think independently of religious, philosophical ,or political emphasis.. maybe it is more difficult to do that with this particular opposition... the 7th house with pluto in this same house implies power struggles with others.. of course this has been exactly the case since 1979 with iran demanding the return to iran of the shah for his brutal dictatorship after the overthrow of the legitimate gov't in 1953, not to mention all the atrocities and etc. he put on the iran population... this led to the usa embassy being over run by these same protesters involved in the iran revolution in the same time frame.. read wikipedia for a wikipedia centric viewpoint on this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis

maybe the 7th house isn't helped with other factors like the sun-mars-mercury conjunction in cap, ruled by saturn in leo... mars is essentially burnt by the sun and might explain the more martial, combative nature of iran in response to relationships more generally... i think a lot of it is due larger imperial colonist powers - uk and usa more recently - wanting to dominate lesser countries like iran.. i am sure the 7th house pluto in this chart is exactly how the iranians see it still... then there is the fact the 9th house is ruled by this same mars... this brings me back to the religious leaders who have played an important role in the military and iranian revolutionary guards leadership... obviously it is a different country and it is hard for me to appreciate the values and system of leadership in these different institutions, but i surmise that although mars in capricorn is known for good management of its energies, it is still a bit of a problem based on the set up in this chart being conjunct sun and mercury... i tend to think neptune in the 9th catches this religious emphasis in the leadership to a degree and probably also mutes the intensity of it all as iran tries to navigate its role on the international stage...

venus in the 10th, or sharing the same sign as the 10th - i like to use whole house signs.. venus is in a 7 degree conjunction with midheaven.. venus is said to oversee islam too, so perhaps iran lives or tries to live up to the ideals of islam as it perceives it.. it is in the suns 12th and the moons 10th... seeking harmony in a threatening world is no easy task, but it would seem to put greater emphasis on diplomacy as i see it..

going back to the chart picture - the moon jupiter trine is the largest gap in the chart, thinking of marc edmund jones chart patterns.. i think this is a locomotive chart.. you can read about that here - https://www.astro.com/astrology/in_jonespatterns_e.htm

this brings me back to the aspects the moon is separating and applying to... moon separates from a 60 to mercury and applies in a 60 to mars, so we are back to the balancing act needed with mars... on a positive note - the sextile relationship between sun and moon signifies the great potential to be viewed and treated as a friend, as opposed to an enemy!

in many ways this is a positive chart... in recent years iran has been helped by china and russia, with the peace agreement and trading agreement with saudi arabia a direct result of chinese diplomacy... at the same time this is happening, there continues to be strong cross currents from the dominant world powers since ww2 - usa in particular, to thwart iran every step of the way...

is it possible for their to be peace between iran and israel? i think there is, but some changes will have to happen and they don't appear to be anywhere on the horizon as i see it... i think this impasse will eventually fall away and iran will regain an important role on the world stage... one idea i had for the future of iran if this chart has real merit is for the transit of pluto over these capricorn planets.. this is going to happen in the next few years and i think it is quite significant... this coincides with saturn moving down into the ascendant and etc. etc... i don't exactly know what it means, but one thought is that the religious leadership is going to undergo an overhaul, perhaps with the passing away of some of these important leaders in iran... at the same time the transit of neptune moving towards the ascendant/moon conjunction will also soften the outward way that iran is perceived in the world - all as i see it...

on the other side of this is israel which will be undergoing the earth changing transit of uranus to its fixed sun in the 8th... i see this as a really challenging time for israel due this particular transit and they are just going into it in the next year..

i have yet to comment on this midpoint chart i made off the feb 1st and israel 4pm chart, but still plan on doing so.. comments would be very welcome on all of this...

james_m wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 12:55 am sidereal....
i have been pondering the iran feb 1, 933am chart set to tehran which is the arrival of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini via plane from paris france where he was living in exile..

Hey James: Just a quick comment on this chart that you might find interesting.
The starting dasha was Saturn/Rahu, which ran through December of 1980. This encompasses the Iran Hostage Crisis that started on November 4, 1979.
Both Saturn and the NN (Rahu) are in conjunct in the 6H, which rules powerful impulses leading to conflict. Saturn is 12L of mishaps and war.
The Hostage Crisis ended on January 20, 1981 (444 days total) in the following subperiod of exalted Jupiter lord of the 10H of head of state and position in the world.
Be Well.

thanks aj!

that reminds me of how i have been sidetracked with the loss of solar fire on this computer.. i am not using the laptop as much, but accessing the dasas would be another good reason to do so, as i still have solar fire on that medium.. what would be the present dasa set up for this same chart for iran? thanks..

on a related note, i have always been shocked at how outraged the usa is/was over that hostage taking event, as i am thinking of how the usa overthrew the democratic iranian leadership of 1953, installed a brutal dictator for 26 years that iranians had to live with under the threat of imprisonment, torture or death and the americans are outraged, lol... the only way that part made sense is if americans have a complete ignorance of what the iranians were put thru... so yeah, they wanted the usa to return the shah back to iran to serve justice, but apparently that didn't or couldn't happen.. the usa looks after its installed dictators, lol..

james_m wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2024 3:26 pm i have always been shocked at how outraged the usa is/was over that hostage taking event, as i am thinking of how the usa overthrew the democratic iranian leadership of 1953, installed a brutal dictator for 26 years that iranians had to live with under the threat of imprisonment, torture or death and the americans are outraged, lol... the only way that part made sense is if americans have a complete ignorance of what the iranians were put thru...

I agree. If you research the history that led up to the overthrow of the Shah and the Hostage Crisis with an open mind, you can easily see why the Iranian people had a legit and literal axe to grind against the US.

thanks aj for this breath of fresh air..

i am sure this acknowledgement gets repeated endlessly in the msm in the usa too, lol - NOT..

james_m wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2024 3:52 pm thanks aj for this breath of fresh air..

i am sure this acknowledgement gets repeated endlessly in the msm in the usa too.

It's a shame we don't have a birthtime for the last Shah of Iran, Mohammed Reza Pahlavi. Astrodatabank has it as dirty data. It would be an interesting study of the history and astrology behind the overthrow and rise of a new nation.

The coronation of the Pahlavi dynasty might give some information. Campion has several choices for when this happened and not a definitive chart on the founding of the first Iranian parliament, the Majilis. There was a coup by Reza Khan that started it all—the dynasty, then the parliament proclaimed him Shah, then the coronation, and then Reza Khan changed the country's name. There are a few choices, but most don't have documented times. *

I'm not sure I have the time right now to sift through all of the differing times and events to decide which, if any, would be solid charts to work from. It could be that more than one chart might apply. Perhaps a better winter project or an excuse for being lazy. LOL

*Page 161 of the 3rd edition of ...World Horoscopes.

thanks aj

it is an interesting consideration! i must be obsessed with understanding the present and downplaying the past here.. i know history is important, but feel we mostly remain ignorant of it - at our own expense.. the other part of it is that as you note - we only have so much time to devote to understanding the world thru astrology with our different adventures in all of this.. i like the idea of combined charts and not sure if i have ever tried it with countries, but i know i have with people and i think there is a lot of merit in the approach.. it is essentially a midpoint chart, bearing in mind the way that the planets show, can really be in either sign opposite one another sometimes.. for example this chart which i posted for iran 933am feb 1st and israel 4pm down below, we can flip venus to its exalted sign - pisces or leave it in virgo - it is a midpoint after all...



getting meaning off these charts is a special challenge.. i really don't know how to read them! well, i could read them in the traditional way of reading a natal chart, but they aren't the same... i am looking at the transits and events to them to see if they hold much meaning to the relationship in the present moment.. perhaps it is foolish for me to try, but i am trying regardless as i feel this dynamic and the larger ones facing the world here are important to unravel..

james_m wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2024 9:21 pm i like the idea of combined charts and not sure if i have ever tried it with countries, but i know i have with people and i think there is a lot of merit in the approach.. it is essentially a midpoint chart, bearing in mind the way that the planets show, can really be in either sign opposite one another sometimes.. for example this chart which i posted for iran 933am feb 1st and israel 4pm down below, we can flip venus to its exalted sign - pisces or leave it in virgo - it is a midpoint after all...

James: Clearly, there are two midpoints between the positions of each planet. The composite technique employs the nearest midpoint between two planets, though it can get tricky when two points are opposite each other between the natal charts, as in the case in question. Still, the synastry opposition is not exact between the 2 Venus positions, so it seems safe to take the nearest midpoint in Virgo for Venus. If it was a partile opposition, then the astologer must make the call about where to place the planet.

james_m wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2024 9:21 pm getting meaning off these charts is a special challenge.. i really don't know how to read them! well, i could read them in the traditional way of reading a natal chart, but they aren't the same... i am looking at the transits and events to them to see if they hold much meaning to the relationship in the present moment.. perhaps it is foolish for me to try, but i am trying regardless as i feel this dynamic and the larger ones facing the world here are important to unravel..

I think you can apply a lot of natal techniques to reading composite charts; it is important to keep in mind that this type of chart is about the relationship between two parties. Since they are mundane charts, you should apply mundane meanings in delineation.

I like composite charts because, unlike traditional synastry, this chart can show the more deeply rooted and even carthartic patterns of a relationship. Difficult traditional synastry patterns seem easier to deal with, or, better put, there is more individual awareness that the individuals can come to control.

Really tough configurations in a composite chart are, IME, almost impossible to overcome because this chart is about the relationship itself.

Just to be clear, I use both traditional synastry and compostite charts in relationship work. Both are important; I mostly look to the composite to find areas that create real stumbling blocks to a relationship, as these stand out very clearly. I stick to pretty tight orbs, 3 degrees on the outside; I might stretch it to 4 if its a configuration.

We don't really need astrology here to tell us, but in the Israel-Iran composite, the chart shows that the relationship is very tumultuous, if not precarious, and either party could call it off very suddenly if there is any future truce or treaty. There will also be endless discussions and negotiations. I am looking at the Uranus-Moon square and the SN on the ascendant, afflicting Pluto in the 9th. The Nodal axis is across the ascendant/descendant, and the NN is aspecting the planet of war, Mars. I'm sure there is more to glean from this chart, but that's enough for now.

Be Well.