A lot of astrologers are predicting that Trump will be elected President on the pretext that transiting Jupiter in Taurus conjunct the Sun and North Node are positive indicators. However this is to ignore the precise degree of Jupiter which is 20 Gemini or 21 when read as a 'Sabian Symbol'. The symbol of 21 Gemini is 'An Industrial Strike' and indicative of self righteous anger'. The question is why would he be 'stirring people up' and protesting if he -Trump- has won? Why is he in dispute?

Also the below factors add weight to the decision :-

PREDICTIONS by TRANSIT to NATAL

TRUMP - his 2025 Inauguration date Transits Jan 20, 25

Bad Tsq to VE-SAT by Hades opp Eris!!

Uranus R 23°18'34" tau conj Trump's Mc 24 tau

Black Lilith trine Trump's Sun.

*
BIDEN - his 2025 Inauguration date Transits Jan 20, 25

Mars-MC transit to Bidens's Jupiter at 25 Cancer (again - see Progressions).

Sun-Pluto square Biden's Moon in 5th

* * *

TRUMP COMPOSITE with Solar Eclipse April 8

MOON square Sun-Saturn-Nodes-MC = No to a Leadership role.

MARS- URANUS- HADES in 10th house = Mad man rampaging.

*

BIDEN COMPOSITE with Solar Eclipse April 8

Apollo conjunct Composite Ascendant

Mars-Pholus on IC.

I also think that Trump will lose. I have seen from the perspective of Libra ingress chart that the reason for Trump's loss is that there are people within the Republican Party who dislike him and do not want him to be president. It's a betrayal from within, because Pluto in Capricorn is in the 4th house.

Greg, It's interesting that you chose to post this exactly when transit Jupiter is conjunct Trump's natal Midheaven, and is sextile his natal Venus, lady of his 10th house, while transit Uranus is approaching it too.
I also doubt it Trump will be the next president, but those transits you mentioned are not enough to confirm it. Maybe you should read John Frawley's books, where he explains how transits alone (on elections day) don't necessarily reflect winning or losing, but just other, unrelated things the native might experience.

More accurately by using Composites, Sabians (& transits).

What would Frawley - or yourself - use instead, Stella?

I also think that Trump will lose. I have seen from the perspective of Libra ingress chart that the reason for Trump's loss is that there are people within the Republican Party who dislike him and do not want him to be president. It's a betrayal from within, because Pluto in Capricorn is in the 4th house.

Wei, maybe that also explains Pluto conjunct MC on Bidens' Inauguration chart. Incidentally, Jill Biden Solar Return has Jupiter conjunct MC so just one more tick to Biden there as well.

Greg Young wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 1:29 pm More accurately by using Composites, Sabians (& transits).

What would Frawley - or yourself - use instead, Stella?

I don't know what Frawley uses, maybe horary questions?
I would use return charts, progressions, solar arc directions and mainly Uranian astrology, lol.

My point is, if I do NOT think Trump is the next president, it doesn't necessarily mean Biden wins. There are so many other possibilities, because you can never know what unexpected events might take place between now and the elections, and between the elections and the expected inauguration, that it might be too early to assume the actual battle will be between these two.

Take, for example the Full Moon on May the 23rd. It will take place on Biden's natal ascendant, opposite his natal Uranus, just as Solar arc Saturn perfects its square to this same Uranus, so the lunation will activate it. Expect the unexpected. Uranus-Saturn is "sudden separation", especially as Uranus is conjunct the natal Desc.

Then have a look at Gavin Newson's Lunar return for May 26th and compare it to his natal chart. Same angles. Exactly. And when you relocate the lunar return chart to Washington DC, you find Pluto conjunct the Ic, Vulcanus on the Mc and the Asc/Desc axis exactly square USA's Pluto.

Greg Young wrote:

A lot of astrologers are predicting that Trump will be elected President on the pretext that transiting Jupiter in Taurus conjunct the Sun and North Node are positive indicators.

Really? Thats news to me. Where have you seen this suggested? None of the astrologers I have seen suggesting a Trump win gone heavily on this point.

If you do see any substantial predictions listed do let me know. I have already listed our very own Wei Wei here on my list of predictions for 2024. Sorry but I felt your earlier post here wasn't detailed enough to include. If you feel like going into more detail on your reasoning in a subsequent post I will be happy to include you.

viewtopic.php?t=12458

Mark

Sorry I'm a bit late, Mark. I can include quite a lot of stuff but for now - Exhibit A. Trump's Solar Return 2024.

Instead of feasting off the bombastic showmanship of Jupiter-Uranus he is tied down like a modern day Gulliver thwarted by a multitude of judicial Liliputians hammering in staves of previous misdemeanours. So this is where Biden's Inauguration chart comes in. What have the nice guy Democrats got to do with Pluto conjunct MC. Well now we know, as much of the power of the state is consumed with stopping Trump from running or at least to stymie him at every turn in an effort to separate him from the lifeblood of his fan base, many of whom are god fearing and puritanical.

So I suspect more astrologers will be turning their predictions to Biden and we'll end up with a decent split. I still haven't found a prediction for Biden whilst Trump gets Patrick Watson, Kenneth Bowser (vedic), Helena (??) the astrocartographer who appeared on Chris Brennan's channel and possibly William Stickevers if my memory is correct. All are decent astrologers and quite respected as far as I know.

The Solar return itself has Saturn-Neptune straddling the MC which has a suggestion of the 'martyr complex' which is commonly thought to garner support in the polls. I'm not sure about the last point but certainly the Saturn-Neptune conjunct may well imply a ''poor me'' victimhood feel to his candidacy. It doesn't indicate any great success though.

Most of the personal planets are square Saturn and by just a few degrees - yes he is frustrated. The tied down Gulliver effect.

SR Uranus-MC squares natal Mars hence the emergence of ''Mr.Angry''recently whilst in the SR chart the effect of Black Lilith's opposition to MC shouldn't be underestimated and its role in the subsequent t-square.

Sun, Mercury, Venus in Gemini square Saturn in Pisces. ''Sad! So sad!!!''As Donald would say.

Greg Young wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 11:43 am
The Solar return itself has Saturn-Neptune straddling the MC which has a suggestion of the 'martyr complex' which is commonly thought to garner support in the polls. I'm not sure about the last point but certainly the Saturn-Neptune conjunct may well imply a ''poor me'' victimhood feel to his candidacy. It doesn't indicate any great success though.

Most of the personal planets are square Saturn and by just a few degrees - yes he is frustrated. The tied down Gulliver effect.

SR Uranus-MC squares natal Mars hence the emergence of ''Mr.Angry''recently whilst in the SR chart the effect of Black Lilith's opposition to MC shouldn't be underestimated and its role in the subsequent t-square.

Sun, Mercury, Venus in Gemini square Saturn in Pisces. ''Sad! So sad!!!''As Donald would say.

Some would argue that the solar return chart does not stand by itself, detached from the nativity, but only as a transit chart to the natal chart. So we actually have SR Uranus on the natal Mc, sextile the SR Mc, which is trine the natal Venus Saturn conjunction. This would suggest something unexpected, surprising or revolutionary regarding his status or job or whatever is signified by his 10th house. It doesn't necessarily have to do with the elections. Maybe he will win the Nobel prize. Who knows?

Then again, if you insist on using the SR as a standalone chart, you will find TNP Kronos tightly conjunct the SR Ascendant (and USA's radix Sun), which would suggest that "Others are superior" and the native is a "Subordinate". Interestingly, SR Asc and Kronos are both almost exactly semisquare his natal Ascendant.

Here's another discussion regarding the 2024 presidential elections. Four Astrologers with four different perspectives thinking outside the "Trump-Biden" box.

Astrology for 2024 US ELECTIONS

From my earlier US Election study it looks to me that Biden, if he does run in November, will probably lose to Trump but it did not look certain that Trump would win against another opponent. The study was based on past US Elections and only compared the probable candidates profected and radix charts on Election Day. Thought I'd take another crack at Trump's chart using Abu Ma'shar's Distributor-Radix-Profection-Solar Return technique (although keep in mind I'm still trying to understand his work.)
Distribution

The distribution moved from the bounds of Venus in Libra to the bounds of Mars in Libra on July 11, 2018 with the partnering moving from the square of Venus to the sextile of Mars on December 21, 2016; on January 18, 2021 the distribution moved into the bounds of Mars in Scorpio and he continued to share with himself by sextile; these conditions (Mars distributing through the light of his own sextile) will continue until December, 2029 when the distribution will move into the bounds of Venus in Scorpio (I used the ascensions of each degree for timing, not the average ascension for the sign occupied).

On February 28, 2023 the distributor/partner pair picked up the management of the Lot of Honours. Interestingly, by OA directions, this lot is at 29 LE conjunct his radix Ascendant (profected 7th) and his directed lot of Victory (29 SA) will be conjunct the profected 11th (using Equal Houses from the Ascendant) and will cease to be critical in November, 2024. Both radix Honors (1 SC) and radix Victory (15 AR) are ruled by Mars and, by direction, both are in Mars terms with Mars having full management over the distribution.

In his radix, Mars is in the 12th (enemies) conjunct the Ascendant ruling the 9th (legal matters, courts) and 4th (property, real estate). Mars conjunction with the Asc points to Trump being very closely associated with the legal matters, real estate and concerned with secret enemies or behind the scene intrigues. Trump has been extremely litigious his entire life; the Washington Post has a timeline of his court battles over the last 50 years, it appears to have come to a head in the last decade. The courts rarely appear to harm him, possibly because the Sun (Asc ruler) overcomes Mars (ruler of the courts, 9th) by sextile. Although it appears the courts (Mars) are managing the events in his life at the moment.

In the profected chart Mars is in the 6th (employees) conjunct the 7th (opponents) ruling P10 (judges) and P3 (communications). He is in the 9th (courts) from his Scorpio domicile and the 4th (property) from his Aries domicile; reinforcing the 4th and 9th associations in the radix. The ruler of the profected Asc is Saturn, he is in P5 (elections) with Venus, ruler of P9 (courts). The pair are in Cancer where Saturn (Trump) is in detriment and Venus (courts) is exalted. They are semi-sextile to Mars in Leo, so averse; however, Al-Qabisi considers Cancer/Leo, as the domiciles of the lights, to be like-engirding, which would mitigate the semi-sextile, giving it the power of a conjunction which is increased by the closeness of the degrees (Saturn 23 CA, Venus 25 CA, Mars 26 CA). Zain says a conjunction brings the things indicated into prominence and that is certainly true here; Trump's court battles and election hopes fill the news cycle every day.

In the Solar Return, Mars is at 3 Taurus, in detriment, intercepted in the 11th, which has Aries on the cusp, this may indicate something good (11th) for Trump; the courts may have difficulty (detriment, interception) controlling events because of Trump's political supports (11th) or possibly judges (Mars) who support (11th) him. Mars also rules, and is opposed to, Scorpio intercepted in the 5th of elections (an indication the lawsuits are primarily focused on preventing him from running?). SR Mars cannot see the SR Ascendant, it's square falls at 3 CA in the ineffective degrees of the 12th; Mars, as the courts and the manager of the times, will be ineffective?

Profection

The profected 1st is in the 7th (conflicts) with Saturn (LoY) in the 5th of elections conjunct Venus, ruler of the courts; indicating conflicts and the election will be top of mind for him during the year. Saturn is in Cancer (detriment) sending his trine to P1 where it is not received so it is unlikely the election will benefit him (Abu Ma'shar says this of a LoY in the SR, I'm extending the meaning to include the indications from aspects in any chart). By the same logic, the trine of Venus to P1, where it is received by exaltation, may well indicate the courts (ruled by Venus) end up helping his election bid, at least initially (Venus is separating from Saturn). As well, in the radix the Sun (radix Asc ruler) and Saturn (profected Asc ruler) are both overcoming Mars but in the profected chart Mars is elevated above them, though not in an overcoming position.

Interestingly Trump's Saturn is in contention. It is a diurnal planet disposited by a nocturnal planet (Moon) which is disposited by a diurnal planet (Jupiter). According to Joy Usher (in her article "A Case for Munkara: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly"), Saturn in contention indicates someone who has:

The feeling of being under attack from authority figures; having one's authority, expertise, or integrity challenged by others; a fearful, disparaging, or negative attitude towards father, authority, or responsibility; a fascination for secret dealings, or a belief in conspiracy theories concerning governments or powerful organisations.

As LoY, Saturn would bring all these feelings to the forefront especially as it's in a mitigated conjunction with Venus (ruler of the courts and the ultimate source of authority) in the profection and sextile the radix ruler of the courts and manager of the times (Mars).
The Moon and South Node are in the P10 and the Sun and Uranus are in P4; placing emphasis on judges and honours (10th) and real estate, the end of matters (4th), reinforcing the areas being emphasized by the distribution.

Solar Return

Cancer is on the SR Asc with the Moon at 14 VI in the SR 3rd sextile the SR Asc and applying to SR Saturn in the 9th. Saturn rules his profected Asc and at 19 PI is transiting his profected 1st so in real-time (SR) he's caught up in the courts (SR 9) and they are not receptive to him (Saturn not received in Pisces) and he's transiting Mars terms in Pisces (distributor, rules the 9th, courts, in the radix) .
The Moon, at 14 VI, is in the radix 1st (using quadrant houses) and the profected 7th while the radix Moon is in the radix 4th, indicating the end (4th) of conflicts (7th)? And the Moon is in Venus terms (she rules the 9th, courts, in the profection). As well, the profected Moon is in P10 with the South Node which is destructive to the career.

Add to this, SR Neptune (illusion, dissolution) at 29 PI in the SR10 inconjunct directed Honors at 29 LE in the SR3 and mitigated (doubled) square to directed Victory at 29 SA in SR6. The cadency of the lots indicates weakness in the year and profected Neptune is in the 8th indicating he will bring harm in the year.

Conclusion

Based on the above I agree with Greg, that Trump may well lose; however, I can't see how Biden will beat him based on the state of his Mercury in his profection and the results I found in my earlier US Election study although I've yet to look at Biden's Solar Return and distributors; maybe it will tell a different tale.

EDIT July 14, 2024
Given yesterday's events thought I would update this. Originally I focused on Mars rulership of the 9th and 4th and did not look at OA Directions. Nor did I look for any indications of assassination or death. Re-checking all levels with a focus on Mars as the ruler of the distribution found the following:

Event:
July 13 - assassination attempt during a rally in Butler, PA at 6:11 PM EDT. A bullet grazed his upper right ear. One member of the audience was killed, 2 were injured; the assassin was killed by a security team sniper.

Distribution

• Mars sharing by sextile with himself

OA Directions

• Basis (0 CA) was critical
• Directed Mars (2 GE) conjunct radix N. Node (critical event)
• Directed Pluto (17 TA) opposition lot of Death (17 SC)

Maiora Esse

• Fortune (0 PI) was critical
• Death (29 CP) was critical
• Uranus (20 GE) was conjunct radix N.Node and directed Mars while the lot of Assassination (20 LE) [Anthony Louis' formula: from the Cusp of 12th to Neptune projected from Asc] was in the mitigated sextile (trine) of Uranus

Minora Esse

• 12th (0 VI) was critical
• Mars (25 VI) was sextile radix Venus (L10)
• Uranus (16 CA) was sextile the directed 12th (16 TA)

Notably, Mars is active on all levels.

Profected Mars is weak in the 6th conjunct the 7th - in the radix 12th of hidden enemies and now connecting martial elements (Mars and 6th) with open opponents (7th).

In the SR, Mars is in detriment so expression is limited to what he can express through his own nature; the environment offers him very little. He's disposited by Venus in the 12th of enemies. So, in the radix, Mars in the 12th points to secret enemies, in the profection, he's referencing 'others' (7th) and in the SR he's referencing a friend or associate (11th) who is an enemy (12th).

The profection year corresponds to the the 7th, so the energy flow for the year is the reverse of the norm in Trump's life. Mars is peregrine (has no authority), working against the life by its opposition to the Asc and connection to others (7th). In the SR it is weaker than usual but by its dispositor reaffirms its radix connection to the 12th (so working against him) and bringing in an element of risk by his opposition to the 5th. Overall, however, Mars is involved in favourable aspects so the event harmed Trump but did not kill him.

AquaStelLea wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 3:37 pm

Greg Young wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 11:43 am
The Solar return itself has Saturn-Neptune straddling the MC which has a suggestion of the 'martyr complex' which is commonly thought to garner support in the polls. I'm not sure about the last point but certainly the Saturn-Neptune conjunct may well imply a ''poor me'' victimhood feel to his candidacy. It doesn't indicate any great success though.

Most of the personal planets are square Saturn and by just a few degrees - yes he is frustrated. The tied down Gulliver effect.

SR Uranus-MC squares natal Mars hence the emergence of ''Mr.Angry''recently whilst in the SR chart the effect of Black Lilith's opposition to MC shouldn't be underestimated and its role in the subsequent t-square.

Sun, Mercury, Venus in Gemini square Saturn in Pisces. ''Sad! So sad!!!''As Donald would say.

Some would argue that the solar return chart does not stand by itself, detached from the nativity, but only as a transit chart to the natal chart. So we actually have SR Uranus on the natal Mc, sextile the SR Mc, which is trine the natal Venus Saturn conjunction. This would suggest something unexpected, surprising or revolutionary regarding his status or job or whatever is signified by his 10th house. It doesn't necessarily have to do with the elections. Maybe he will win the Nobel prize.

Yes that has been noted and mentioned by those suggesting that Trump may win but they overlooked or maybe dismissed the view that Uranus is combust in his chart so not as useful or as positive an influence as may be the case otherwise.

You're right that Bidens chart's aren't anything special so there is de finitely a question mark over him in that respect, however his Wife's SR was much better so swayed me to believe he may yet reach the finishing line. Both he and King Charles are Scorpio's - they don't generally give up easily!

Greg Young wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 10:18 am
You're right that Bidens chart's aren't anything special so there is de finitely a question mark over him in that respect, however his Wife's SR was much better so swayed me to believe he may yet reach the finishing line. Both he and King Charles are Scorpio's - they don't generally give up easily!

Well, his wife's SR chart might not have anything to do with winning the elections, but with releasing her from her current career as his caretaker. In her natal chart she has Jupiter cnj the IC (her husband's turned Mc). The 2024 SR Jupiter will be cnj the SR Mc (Jupiter reversing its place) , her husband's turned IC. A possible "change of residence"?

Remember what your most favorite astrologer, Archie Dunlop, said about Jupiter on the MC? It's either getting a job, or being released from the job.
He claims that when transit Jupiter was on his natal MC he got a well paying job, and 12 years later, when transit Jupiter was revisiting the same MC, he was fired from that same job.

Makes you wonder.