You know Ouranos is Canadian too, right?

Yes I am French-Canadian.
And raized with ze french inflouence.
In 1975, Georges Muchery wrote a book 'La recherche de l'époque des événements et leur interprétation' (a rather long title as only French astrologers can do it!). And it was about Primary Directions mainly influenced by Morin de Villefranche.
One of the reason for the lack of popularity of P.D. is the fact that it is calculated on the local sphere rather than on the ecliptic.
In his book, he outlines 13 rules for P.D, the first one being 'A Direction, whatever the way in which it occurs, only results in facts or events related to the possibilities of the birth chart'.
And it is the most important one.
He gives the example of an astrologer who had an indication of 2 marriages in his natal chart. He first got married at 26 years old, he filed for divorce at 35 but changed his mind at the urging of his family. His wife died when he was 47 and he himself died 30 years later without contracting a second marriage. (Or should we say, he got married twice to the same woman!)
Destiny has many twists.
It is always handy to have along the P.D. or Profections, a table of planetary ages and sub-periods starting from the Moon (0 to 7) Mercury (7 to 14) Venus (14 to 21) and so on for a heartbreak at the age of a Venus period or sub-period will be felt more strongly. And even when you follow eclipses for example, 2 planets in the 6th House, the first one gets a hit triggering a health issue and 14 days later, the second one gets the second hit amplifying the effect of the 1st one. And sometimes, it can mean years when triggered by P.D or months by Profections.

Best to you,
Ouranos

Ouranos,
Why not open a blog on astrology? Or write a book on the subject?
You have so much to offer and it's wasted on us, the much diminished community of Skyscript
Dilapidated due to astrology facebook groups, in comparison to its glory days.

Dima Gur wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 11:35 am Ouranos,
Why not open a blog on astrology? Or write a book on the subject?
You have so much to offer and it's wasted on us, the much diminished community of Skyscript :)

Dropping in to say I think this is a great idea. I'd definitely bookmark and be a regular reader.

I think Anthony Louis does a great job with his blog and I could see something similar being done but with more emphasis on novel, modern approaches and techniques. You're so widely read Ouranos, and interested in and open to things (which in my opinion makes YOU a very interesting and fun person to converse with), I think it's a no brainer - you should do it!

Dima Gur wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 11:35 am Ouranos,
Why not open a blog on astrology? Or write a book on the subject?
You have so much to offer and it's wasted on us, the much diminished community of Skyscript
Dilapidated due to astrology facebook groups, in comparison to its glory days.

I third that motion

Thank you for your kind words dear colleagues!

lol…an astrology book, including your side jokes, would be a valued addition to any bookshelf. Thank you for the smiles.

Best wishes always

Martin Gansten wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 6:34 am ...the sort of astrology popular in the 20th-century western world differs sharply in certain respects, such as the inclusion/exclusion of certain predictive techniques (which is where this thread started), from every other variant. Anyone can verify this for themselves by reading the texts.

Martin: Alright, circling back to the initial point of this discussion.

Martin said:
Modern western astrology (beginning in the late 19th century) is the anomaly, with most of its practitioners unaware of techniques that were absolutely standard and used across the board from the ancient period at least up to the 17th century and filling in the gaps with a plethora of new inventions.

There's a clear evolution in astrology from its ancient forms to what emerged in the late 19th century. However, labeling it an anomaly is a bit dismissive and harsh. (It's curious that you use "...is the anomaly,..." instead of "an" anomaly.) While you think of modern Western astrology as an anomaly due to its differences from older forms, this perspective overlooks its inherent adaptability.

Throughout history, astrology has thrived by incorporating new knowledge and methodologies. The Babylonian and Egyptian influences on Hellenistic astrology, for instance, marked a significant evolution. In the 1st century, Alexandria emerged as a sprawling cosmopolitan center, blending diverse cultures into a vibrant melting pot. Here, various astrological traditions from Mesopotamia and Egypt intermingled, giving rise to a novel synthesis of astrology infused with Greek and other cultural influences, becoming what we call Hellenistic astrology during the 1st century BCE.

Similarly, Baghdad experienced a comparable phenomenon in the 8th and 9th centuries, characterized by a vast convergence of cultures. This cultural amalgamation led to the development of a distinct and innovative form of astrology, marking the genesis of early medieval astrology. This new astrological synthesis differentiated itself from the preceding Greco-Roman or Hellenistic tradition, which had largely prevailed until the 6th or 7th century.

Another example is that horary astrology had its faint beginnings in the 1st century, with scarce mentions in Dorotheus' writings. Horary astrology gained increased prominence in the Greek tradition by the 5th century, as evidenced by the emergence of some of the earliest horary charts. However, it wasn't until the 8th and 9th centuries, as far as we know, with the works of Sahl, Theophilus, and Masha'allah, that horary really blossomed. It is from this time period that some of the earliest comprehensive treatises on horary astrology have survived.

Modern Western astrology isn't a break from this pattern; it's a further adaptation. The late 19th century saw a dramatic shift in intellectual thought, with the scientific revolution, the Enlightenment, and the rise of empiricism challenging established belief systems. In response, astrology embraced innovation. There's a clear shift in emphasis from earlier forms focused on specific predictive techniques to a broader exploration of personality, psychology, and self-understanding. However, this doesn't mean it's an anomaly. 20th-century Western astrology is certainly distinctive in its techniques compared to the 17th century. Traditional techniques like primary directions (PDs) took a backseat, particularly in the latter half of the 20th century. However, it's important to remember that these techniques weren't entirely abandoned. For example, PDs didn't disappear, waiting for a modern revival. Popular late 19th and early 20th century astrologers like Sepharial, Simmonite, Kühr, and DeLuce (just to name a few) used and wrote about them. There were a number of astrologers in the latter half of the 20th century who were actively using and refining PDs. I was using Bob Makransky's materials in the late 1980s when I was experimenting with PDs, long before there was any inkling of Project Hindsight that came later in the 90s. This demonstrates continuity rather than a complete break from tradition.*

It just occurred to me that Alan Leo, often criticized by traditionalists as the bad boy of modern astrology, had a comprehensive 'how to' chapter on primary directions in his work, The Progressed Horoscope (1905).

Modern astrology still draws heavily on the foundations laid by Hellenistic, Medieval, and Renaissance astrologers. The core concepts of planets, signs, houses, and aspects are all present, albeit interpreted and applied in evolving ways. Modern Western astrology, then, isn't an aberration but an enriched continuation of the tradition. It has absorbed the intellectual currents of its time, just as its predecessors did. The core concepts endure, are reinterpreted,and are adapted to fit the 21st century.

As with any dynamic tradition, the potential exists for future adaptations based on new discoveries or cultural shifts. Just as the stars themselves are constantly in motion, so too may the ways we interpret their influence continue to evolve. While the interpretation and application might have evolved, these foundations remain strong. The dynamism of modern astrology is what makes it relevant. It allows the practice to reflect the complexities of the contemporary world while still honoring its rich history.

* If you want to really get into the nuts and bolts of calculating primary directions, Primary Directions, a primer of calculation (1988) by Bob Makransky, is highly recommended. Warning: It is entirely technically oriented. I think it is in reprint.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. To me it is clear that although things are always changing (I wouldn't necessarily call it 'evolving'), that doesn't mean that all changes are either qualitatively or quantatively equal. Some can be usefully compared to a person growing into adulthood, others are more like losing a limb (and perhaps being fitted with a prosthetic).

Regarding primary directions, Makransky knew the maths but didn't understand (or perhaps didn't care for?) their traditional use, so if the latter is what one is after, his text can be misleading (and most non-mathematicians would find it very dense). Leo didn't understand either, which is why he invented the hybrid 'progressed horoscope'. He had Däath help him with the technical bits, but he still bungled it.

Martin Gansten wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 5:18 am You're entitled to your opinion, of course. To me it is clear that although things are always changing (I wouldn't necessarily call it 'evolving'), that doesn't mean that all changes are either qualitatively or quantatively equal. Some can be usefully compared to a person growing into adulthood, others are more like losing a limb (and perhaps being fitted with a prosthetic).

Martin: Thanks for sharing your perspective. While it's true that not all changes are equal, I believe the concept of 'evolving' captures the idea that even challenging transformations can lead to new strengths and adaptations. You use the analogy of a prosthetic, but even a prosthetic can foster new abilities and resilience. Just as growing into adulthood involves both gains and losses, so too does evolution, with each phase contributing to the overall growth and capability of the individual or system.

Regarding primary directions, Makransky knew the maths but didn't understand (or perhaps didn't care for?) their traditional use, so if the latter is what one is after, his text can be misleading (and most non-mathematicians would find it very dense). Leo didn't understand either, which is why he invented the hybrid 'progressed horoscope'. He had Däath help him with the technical bits, but he still bungled it.

The merits or shortcomings of those working with PDs in the 20th century are beside the point. The key issue is that modernists were trying to integrate traditional astrological techniques with contemporary understandings. It’s important to consider the broader context and intentions behind their work.

But I think we are done with this conversation. Thanks for your feedback.

AJ wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 6:01 am The merits or shortcomings of those working with PDs in the 20th century are beside the point. The key issue is that modernists were trying to integrate traditional astrological techniques with contemporary understandings.

No, the key issue is that extremely few astrologers in the 20th century, especially its latter half, even tried to work with primary directions (most would have been hard put even to explain what they were), and even fewer with profections; and that even those who did want to use them didn't know how, precisely because the tradition of which they formed an integral part had been broken. Which is more or less where we came in.

hi dima

thanks for replying... we all have to go down a road that is individual to us... i do think it is reflected in the choices we make and why we arrive at different places of interest for example....

yes, i knew ouranos was canadian... do you think i should sign up to his fan club? lolol...

cheers
james

Dima Gur wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 10:37 pm James:
Forget to reply to you, will do it now.
That's interesting, your aversion to horary. If you like mundane, horary may seem to trivial, I suppose. I try to get better at both, though I'd say my horary is stronger.
I keep telling myself to learn some Vedic, one day, and give Sidereal a chance. Thus far though, it feels I have too much on my hands with "regular" traditional astrology.
Oh, moon's nodes are super important. Disregarding the fact they're a favorite amongst modern astrologers (evolutionary astrology, draconic astrology and such) and we traditionalists tend to scoff at those sometimes.
You know Ouranos is Canadian too, right? Though, I think you two are at the opposite ends of the continent.

james_m wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 4:37 pm
yes, i knew ouranos was canadian... do you think i should sign up to his fan club? lolol...

Responses to the Ouranos Fanclub since its incorporation have been overwhelming, James. I'm afraid it will cost you a small fee to join now. PM me for details on where to send payment ;)