i have thought about this topic for some time... i was curious to get some feedback on the issue of the trivialization of horary in regards mostly to the nature of many of the questions being asked... with this in mind, a friend of mine gave what i thought was a very well reasoned and considered reply which i'd like to share.. it is shown below... feedback on any of this is welcome..

"The proliferation of trivial questions in horary astrology can be attributed to various factors, with Western culture playing a significant role in shaping this trend. In today's fast-paced society, where instant gratification is often the norm, individuals are accustomed to seeking quick solutions to even the most minor inconveniences. Western culture has fostered an environment where the slightest delay or inconvenience can trigger frustration or even a sense of despair. Whether it's waiting for a cappuccino to be prepared in less than two minutes or expecting immediate responses to text messages, there's a pervasive expectation of instant gratification.

This culture of immediacy extends to the realm of seeking answers to life's questions. In a society conditioned to value efficiency and convenience above all else, the idea of waiting patiently for insights or guidance may seem antiquated or impractical. Instead, there's a tendency to seek quick fixes and easy answers, regardless of the significance of the question at hand.

Furthermore, the entertainment-centric nature of modern culture also contributes to the trivialization of horary astrology. In an era where entertainment options abound and attention spans are increasingly fragmented, individuals may turn to astrology as a form of amusement rather than a serious tool for introspection or decision-making. The accessibility of astrology through online platforms and social media further reinforces this perception, with horary astrology often reduced to a form of digital entertainment consumed in bite-sized doses.

In this context, it's not surprising that superficial inquiries dominate the practice of horary astrology. Questions about trivial daily decisions or frivolous matters may abound, reflecting a culture that prioritizes convenience and entertainment over deeper reflection and insight.

To address this issue and restore the credibility of horary astrology, it's essential to cultivate a shift in mindset among both practitioners and clients. Education plays a crucial role in raising awareness about the depth and complexity of horary astrology, emphasizing its potential to provide profound insights into life's most significant questions. By fostering a culture of discernment and encouraging individuals to ask substantive questions that genuinely matter to them, horary astrology can reclaim its status as a valuable tool for self-discovery and decision-making.


Additionally, promoting the ethical practice of horary astrology and emphasizing its role as a means of personal empowerment can help counteract the perception of astrology as mere entertainment. By highlighting the responsibility that comes with seeking astrological guidance and encouraging clients to approach it with seriousness and respect, practitioners can foster a more meaningful and impactful engagement with the discipline.

Ultimately, by addressing the root causes of trivialization and cultivating a culture of mindfulness and introspection, horary astrology can transcend its reputation as a frivolous pastime and emerge as a respected and valued tool for navigating life's complexities.

It must be said that the sincerity behind a client's question stands as the cornerstone of the horary process. Delving deeper into this principle, it becomes evident that the genuine intent with which a question is posed holds paramount significance. It sets the tone for the entire consultation, shaping the energy and direction of the inquiry.

Through years of practice and study, some astrologers have come to grasp the profound impact that the earnestness of a client's query has on the accuracy and insightfulness of the horary chart interpretation. This fundamental understanding underscores the essence of the ancient wisdom embedded within astrology, highlighting the vital interplay between the purity of intention and the revelations offered by the celestial configurations."

James, I'm so glad you are here to save us all from the myriad problems in astrology. What would we do without you? LOL

lol!

it's a tough job, but someone has to do it!!

Good point James,

A good approach to a trivial question is when someone is asking a question with no direct link with the querent. You get the feeling that 'Who cares'.
Or if someone ask a question based on a distorted belief system. Like 'When will the UFOs land in my backyard?'
Another example is when the question is not clearly worded. Like 'When will my father die?' but the querent is secretly thinking instead if he will inherit. That's why it is best to question the querent upside down and once you clarify his intent, you can come up with 'So, what is your question?"
And I know also that questions regarding health or death should be approached with caution.

I have seen people still living with a comment made by an astrologer some 50 years ago.

Best to you,
Ouranos

thanks ouranos

i think the importance of the question and intent on the part of the person posing the question is critical.. i am not a horary astrologer, but i have seen enough questions in this forum as an example to want to discuss this.. i was happy that my friend replied in what i thought it was very valid set of observations on the world of today which has great bearing on people in general asking questions to astrologers.. i think astrologers are also guilty of the traits reflected in these same characterizations..

ps - jason

i just realized i am probably doing to need a secretary for this gig - wink, wink!!

Non vitae sed scholae discimus.

In German, Seneca's saying is sometimes quoted the other way around, that one does not learn for school, but for life. In my former school newspaper, you even became Godotesque, loosely based on Beckett: You don't learn for life, but for the cat. For the cat is a phrase in German that means that something makes no sense.

On a serious note: James, I went through a phase where I wanted to challenge everyone about everything that I thought was wrong with 'their' astrology. "If only they would see the TRUTH!" (my way of seeing things). So I can sympathize with the little crusades you try to wage here, in a sense. But these days I can only laugh at myself for the amount of time I spent so concerned about things that I had zero control over. I've realized that Astrology doesn't need me to front its police force, and what's likely to make the most impact is to just get to the business of doing astrology in a way that works for me, that hopefully helps others, and stands on its own merit.

As for the modern eras complicated nature contributing to the 'trivialitization' of horary astrology. I mean, c'mon man, I feel like that's just the opinion of you and your friend. There are records of 'reputable' palace astrologers criticizing marketplace astrologers who served commoners needs from way back. I'm sure if you look into India there's much of the same thing. I don't disagree that we live in what feels like a whirlwind of times, but this isn't what's caused people to have 'trivial' questions - we are humans, one could argue that it's in our nature to wonder about 'trivial' things, it's what sets us apart from other species! Besides, who gets to decide what's trivial? You? If so, you really are gonna need a secretary, huh? lol! Can't we just leave it up to astrologers to decide for themselves whether to answer a question or not after a discussion with the querent?

jakob

thanks for that interesting thought!

jason

i wasn't thinking of changing anyone, or being on some crusade.. these were thoughts i was pondering and i thought i would share them.. i hadn't noticed anyone discussing this either, but perhaps as you note, it has happened before... i am sure it has! in regards to your question at the end - obviously this will go on and that would be the obvious answer! if nothing else for anyone who reads this post, it's an opportunity for reflection.. i don't know that everyone reflects on these things.. maybe they do.. i suppose i could just not post, lol... but i can't stop people projecting onto me either.. that would be something for them to reflect on, if they are given over to that..

i suppose my post is philosophical in nature.. it's nothing to take personally as some sort of challenge but of course it can be that too, although that wasn't my intention.. cheers. james

james_m wrote: i suppose my post is philosophical in nature.. it's nothing to take personally as some sort of challenge but of course it can be that too, although that wasn't my intention..

James, I respect your right to express your thoughts. I want to clarify that I didn't feel attacked by your post, nor did I intend to make you feel that way. I was simply sharing my own perspective on the topic. You asked for people's thoughts, and I responded. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding, and there are no hard feelings between us.

As for the part about the "crusades" - I'll admit, maybe I should have left that out. My intention there was just to point out that from where I stand, you seem to be very vocal about your disagreements with the way others practice astrology. I've been coming around here for less than a year, and I've seen you badmouth others' preferred approaches on numerous occasions, sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly: Uranian astrology, traditional astrologers in general, the use of terms, and now horary being 'trivialized' - just to name a few. You've also expressed that sometimes you post things that you feel are important and don't understand why no one responds. As someone who has enjoyed conversing with you here, I only hoped to point out the obvious to you: you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. No one wants to be made to feel they are ridiculous for practicing astrology in a way that suits them. Maybe just try and be more aware of that? I don't know. I know it might not seem like it, but really, I'm just trying to help you out here man.

thanks jason

clearly you misunderstand me, so unless i see the specifics, i can only say - you are not reading me very well, or my humour and poking fun at others is missed and not done is a very clear manner... i do find astrologers often a real stuffy lot.. it might be why i am looking more for humour and playfulness then can be gotten in most instances, or certainly not only via the written word.. i can stand by that... at any rate - thanks for your commentary! i appreciate it.. cheers james

james_m wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 8:55 pm thanks jason

clearly you misunderstand me, so unless i see the specifics, i can only say - you are not reading me very well, or my humour and poking fun at others is missed and not done is a very clear manner... i do find astrologers often a real stuffy lot.. it might be why i am looking more for humour and playfulness then can be gotten in most instances, or certainly not only via the written word.. i can stand by that... at any rate - thanks for your commentary! i appreciate it.. cheers james

It's a very real possibility that I've misunderstood where you were joking at times. If that's the case, I stand to be corrected and will try to read between the lines of your posts differently going forward. Like I said earlier, no hard feelings over here.

Let's get back to what you and I do best then, shall we? As far as astrologers often being "a real stuffy lot" - lol - You opened this thread with an essay about how horary needs to be restored to its "proper" function. Do you not see anything "stuffy" about that?! (and I say this with a joking around smile - not aggressively)

I started a book this morning that made me laugh when, unexpectedly, the first chapter included this bit that I thought seemed relevant to our conversation here (and the world of astrology, and the world in general):

I find the behavior of religious believers to be a special kind of geekiness that leads people to go way overboard, often with tragic consequences. I used to work for a company that made bad Japanese monster movies. Part of my job was to act as a sort of liaison between the company and American and European fans of our films. One thing that always surprised me was that people who are fans of cheap Japanese monster movies will go to monster conventions, and instead of being overjoyed at meeting fellow geeks with whom they have so much in common, they often end up fighting with each other over the minutest trivial shit. Godzilla geeks pretty much all hate each other.

Let's try and not be like godzilla geeks, James.

::extends an olive branch::

thanks so much jason! i appreciated the quote you shared, as i think that captures some of what happens in astrological circles as well.. - very good!!

as for the ''astrologers are a really stuffy lot''... that is and isn't true, so i suppose it depends.. and again i would like to emphasize that all the people i interact with on skyscript, i have never met in person.. we miss out a lot without the additional information that could be much more easily gotten if we were able to make eye contact and pick up on people's body language and etc. etc... here we just have words to go by which works to a point..

to get back to the thread i created, i feel it is something to ponder... how relevant are the questions? i can't know that, but i do believe the observations on the changes in our culture, covered in the response to my question to a friend - are very relevant and important to consider here.. i don't think it is too much to say people's attention span and ability to concentrate have been impacted negatively by technology and the idea of instant gratification.. and i think it shows up in all avenues of human activity too... but - again, this is my subjective take on where we are on the planet at present, and i could be wrong...