Hi AquaStelLea,

AquaStelLea wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 2:51 pm
I'll try to apply what I learned from Greg Young , using lunation charts set for London, and lunar returns to the 1801 UK Birth Chart.

1. The day after the election will be a New Moon at 14 degrees Cancer, in the 10th house of the 1801 UK birth chart...

Since you mentioned 'New Moon after the election' in the 2024 United Kingdom general election thread, I'd like to discuss a question with you, or anyone else who is interested in and has thoughts on this topic.

The Sun and the Moon are at certain distances from the Earth. Sunlight takes 8 minutes and 20 seconds to reach the Earth, and moonlight takes 1.255 seconds. In other words, what we see of the Sun is from 8 minutes and 20 seconds ago, and what we see of the Moon is from 1.255 seconds ago.

Conversely, if there were observers on the Sun and the Moon, they would see the Earth as it was 8 minutes and 20 seconds ago and 1.255 seconds ago, respectively.

Based on this logic, if we were observing the Earth from a planet far enough away, we would see past events on Earth, not future events.

Example:

Suppose we are on a planet 100 light-years away from Earth, and it is now 2024. What we would see of the Earth is its state from 1924. Even if a significant event occurs on Earth in 2025, the light from that event would not reach us until 2125.

So, we can only observe past events on Earth from the universe, not future ones.

Now, here's the main point: why did ancient authors focus on the preceding syzygy rather than the following syzygy?

Could it be that the ancients believed the alignment of planets in the sky reflected the planets' past but also foretold the Earth's future? There's a saying that the history and current state of Mars represent the future of Earth.

If we don't clarify this, I feel the entire logic of astrology, including causality and the sequence of time, would become confused.

Wei wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 4:52 am
Now, here's the main point: why did ancient authors focus on the preceding syzygy rather than the following syzygy?

Could it be that the ancients believed the alignment of planets in the sky reflected the planets' past but also foretold the Earth's future? There's a saying that the history and current state of Mars represent the future of Earth.

Hi Wei,

That's a great question.

I don't know much about the ancients and their way of thinking, so my questions are:

1. Why do converse progressions, directions, luminary and planetary returns etc...seem to work just as well (and sometimes even better) in prediction, as the same techniques when being used in the ordinary way? Some astrologers would argue that "time flows in both directions", and is mirroring itself. This is somewhat similar to antscia/contrantiscia, but in the fourth dimension.

2. Why is it that lunations and especially eclipses can be triggered by transiting planets, even before they take place in time, just as much as after they do? There are many examples to prove this.

3. If Astrology is all about light, then why are "invisible planets" like Neptune and Pluto and "geometrical points" like Rahu and Ketu used in astrology although our eyes cannot see their light, or they don't emit any light?

My conclusion would be that we don't really understand the cosmos, the nature of spacetime, or even what astrology really is and why it works, if it indeed works.

Hi AquaStelLea,

I realized that I did not express myself clearly in my previous post. Because of your comments, I have made some associations that have overturned my previously held assumptions. I enjoy this kind of discussion.

The question I would like to ask is: what is the cause and what is the effect? Regarding celestial phenomena and events on Earth, which is the cause and which is the effect? Which occurs first in chronological order, and which comes later?

Generally, celestial phenomena are considered the cause, and events on Earth are the effect. Therefore, in terms of chronological order, celestial phenomena occur first, and events on Earth follow.

AquaStelLea wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 5:58 am
1. Why do converse progressions, directions, luminary and planetary returns etc...seem to work just as well (and sometimes even better) in prediction, as the same techniques when being used in the ordinary way? Some astrologers would argue that "time flows in both directions", and is mirroring itself. This is somewhat similar to antscia/contrantiscia, but in the fourth dimension.

According to my understanding:

Progression refers to the movement of planets according to the zodiacal order, which appears as a counterclockwise motion on the chart. Directions, on the other hand, imagine planets following the rotation of the equator to reach a certain position in the sky at a future time, appearing as a clockwise motion on the chart.

The difference between progression and directions versus converse progression and directions lies in whether it is from the promissor to the significator or from the significator to the promissor.

Antiscia/contra-antiscia are related to the solar analemma, which can be represented by a sine function.
Antiscia = |A| represents equal daytime and nighttime hours.

Contra-antiscia = |CA| represents opposite daytime and nighttime hours.

Image source: [Antiscia Definition](https://www.astromages.org/antiscia-def ... 9975706be3)

These concepts do not seem to be related to chronological order.

Image source: www.astromages.org

The orange English text on i is annotated by me.

AquaStelLea wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 5:58 am
2. Why is it that lunations and especially eclipses can be triggered by transiting planets, even before they take place in time, just as much as after they do? There are many examples to prove this.

The general understanding is that transiting planets trigger the preceding eclipsed degrees?

AquaStelLea wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 5:58 am
3. If Astrology is all about light, then why are "invisible planets" like Neptune and Pluto and "geometrical points" like Rahu and Ketu used in astrology although our eyes cannot see their light, or they don't emit any light?

Light is a type of electromagnetic wave, and visible light is a type of light that can be perceived by the human eye, with wavelengths ranging from 380 nm to 780 nm. However, in practical application, I think the Trans-Neptunian Points (TNPs) are also worth considering.

Interesting arguments guys!
Sometimes, I feel like I cannot disagree on opposing views.
Let's move forward and converse together!
There are 2 very intense and obvious moments in our life when we can say I see the light!'
When we are born and when we die. Similar but in opposite direction.
A couple of years ago I read the famous book of Philippe Turchet on Synergology, the updated version and in it he mentioned the advance of science where for example the bodily movements of an individual (calculated with electrodes - a magnetic field) indicates what his next movement will be even before this information is sent to his brain.
It might be that the day you turned left at the corner of the street without knowing exactly why and you met Mr. Right that it was probably the obsolescence of your previous life.
An old woman said one day to a famous decaying prime minister... 'Goodbye Charlie Brown!'
And he was gone even before the lost election.


Ouranos

Hi Ouranos，

I originally wanted to start a separate topic specifically to discuss light. I find light to be a very interesting substance. It's not just about its wave-particle duality (if I remember correctly, classical mechanics states that matter is either particles or wave).

Any matter or energy exists in a state of entropy, meaning that any order will move towards disorder, heat turns to cold, and energy dissipates unless work is done (energy is obtained from the outside).

If we rely solely on the Earth's energy (the core), the Earth might have perished long ago. The Earth continues to exist because it receives energy from the outside (mainly from the Sun).

Scientists are aware of this, which is why everyone is trying to explore outer space, leave the Earth, and migrate to other planets.

Light (energy) is the origin and foundation of all knowledge (including metaphysics—whether astrology or the I Ching).

I am feeling very lazy now (low energy) because I didn't have breakfast and went to bed too late last night (barely fell asleep at 3 AM). I don't have the energy to verify my thoughts at the moment.

I need some electromagnetic waves.

very interesting

In some traditions out there, its viewed that there are two great currents. One goes from the "past" and moves to the "future", its characterized by expansion, light and a lot of other stuff. Govern by Mercury, initially, then through his higher counterparts, as the Mental aspect revolving close to the Sun.
The other is moving the opposite direction, its moving deeper within itself and is characterized by darkness. Is ruled by Venus, and its higher aspects, related to the emotional perspective to it all.

Usually its understood that in this part of Earth history we interact extensively with the first one, as that is what humanity has decided to focus on.
The second one, so called "Yin" part of existence, is what is used in Divination and similar studies. If one wants true balance, there is a meeting points of the two, that is the Sun of course, 'I am presence' and a lot of other stuff, and in this context is what is called "The Eternal Now".

Random,

The concepts you have introduced are beyond my current level of understanding.

My understanding of astrology is as follows:

One of the main functions of astrology is to predict the future. Astrologers analyze the positions and movements of celestial bodies to foresee future events and trends. They believe that there is a correspondence between the movements of celestial bodies and human activities. By observing celestial phenomena, they can anticipate upcoming events. Astrology is based on the premise that the universe is orderly and that the movements of celestial bodies are regular. According to this view, there is a predetermined connection between celestial phenomena and events on Earth. The celestial patterns before an event are considered omens of what is to come, and astrologers interpret these omens to provide foresight. The changes in celestial patterns before an event can be predicted and calculated, while after the event, these changes are no longer as important since the main goal of the prediction has been achieved.

Therefore, we observe the celestial patterns before events occur. This is my basic understanding of astrology.

The piano is an interesting instrument. We hit one string, lets say with the idea to hear C sharp. Turns out if we do that all Cs from all octaves will also join in, as they will vibrate in the same frequency.
So there is resonance from things that are similar. The reason in most armies around the world, they will stop marching when they get near a bridge. As if it turns out they "hit" the right frequency, the bridge may collapse, as has already happened.
Also the reason people scream at their glasses, with the hope they will brake. And they do(plenty of youtube videos on that). Or why if we leave enough mechanical instruments near each other they will get in sync eventually...

In my understanding divination works with resonance. What we are thinking/asking about is reflected in the Planets, same way as its reflected in every situation around us, also is reflected in any random cards we may get out of any random deck.
Here one can say, ok, but what is in the past is already in the past, how we resonate with it.
And past... Well, time doesn't work like that.

For example in physics there is the idea the faster something moves the slower time passes for it. They have tested that, if I remember correctly. It involved atomic clock and plane, a person carried one and went around the Earth then they compared it to a clock that didn't go through that. And sure enough, there was difference. The clock that stayed on Earth had more "time" passed for it. Suggesting the fact one of them was "moving" faster lead to time going slower for it.

So as far as physics go, we know time isn't independent, even in the way we perceive it its very connected to space. Space changes, time changes.
There is the theory if one moves fast enough time will not only stop, but start moving backwards.
In that sense we have time-space thing that comes together. If space folds, time folds.

How to add that to divination... If we view past, present and future as all being in one big "field" together with Space, then all becomes depended on the points of view we look at that field from. We look at it from one angle and we have past, we look at it from another and we have future. But all is here at the same time. At least that is how experiments seems to show. Not all scientific, though, but if we step outside to metaphysics, remote viewing, trance induced phenomenons etc. there is very easy to see people do know what will happen in many cases and that can be accesses, only prevented by their believe they can't when fully awake.
Overall, all depends how we view it all works. Belief system and all.

What do the 2 currents have to do with it... Well, if we view that great "field" containing all the "times" and space, then that 2 currents will be movements in it. People have map it out geometrically as well, although again - not really science now, also long to go into.

Random,

This is what I learned today about the world described by quantum mechanics.

I feel that some characteristics and phenomena of quantum mechanics are somewhat analogous to our spiritual world.

1. Wave-Particle Duality
- **Wave-like and Particle-like Nature**: Microscopic particles can exhibit both particle properties (such as particle trajectories) and wave properties (such as interference and diffraction). This phenomenon is known as wave-particle duality.
- **Experiment**: The double-slit experiment is the most famous example, where electrons or photons passing through double slits produce interference patterns, demonstrating wave-like properties.

2. Quantum Superposition
- **Superposition State**: A quantum system can exist in a superposition of multiple states simultaneously, collapsing into a definite state only upon measurement.
- **Example**: The position of an electron in an atom is not deterministic but exists in a probabilistic superposition of different positions.

3. Quantum Entanglement
- **Entangled State**: Two or more particles can be correlated in a way that the measurement of one particle immediately affects the state of another particle, regardless of the distance between them. This phenomenon is known as quantum entanglement.
- **Experiment**: Bell's theorem experiments confirm quantum entanglement, showing instantaneous correlations between particles over long distances.

4. Uncertainty Principle
- **Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle**: For certain pairs of physical quantities (such as position and momentum), it is impossible to measure both with arbitrary precision. The more precisely one quantity is measured, the less precisely the other can be known.
- **Formula**: Δx * Δp ≥ ħ/2, where Δx is the uncertainty in position, Δp is the uncertainty in momentum, and ħ is the reduced Planck constant.

5. Quantum Tunneling
- **Tunneling Effect**: Particles can penetrate classically insurmountable barriers, a phenomenon known as quantum tunneling.
- **Applications**: Tunnel diodes and scanning tunneling microscopes (STM) utilize this principle.

6. Discrete Energy Levels
- **Quantized Energy Levels**: In atoms and molecules, electrons can occupy only specific discrete energy levels, not the states between these levels.
- **Spectra**: Emission and absorption spectra of atoms arise from transitions between these energy levels.

7. Quantum Computing
- **Quantum Bits (Qubits)**: Quantum computers use qubits to perform computations, where each qubit can exist in a superposition of 0 and 1 states, offering parallel computational capabilities that classical computers cannot match.
- **Algorithms**: Quantum algorithms such as Shor's algorithm and Grover's algorithm demonstrate potential advantages in solving specific problems.

8. Measurement Problem of Quantum States
- **Measurement Issue**: Quantum systems collapse from a superposition state to a specific state upon measurement. The process of measurement is a core issue in quantum mechanics, with different interpretations (like Copenhagen interpretation, Many-Worlds interpretation) offering varying perspectives.
- **Wavefunction Collapse**: Measurement causes the particle's wavefunction to collapse to a definite state, the mechanism of which remains a mystery in physics research.

9. Non-Locality
- **Non-Locality**: Non-locality in quantum mechanics refers to correlations between particles that cannot be explained by local interactions in classical physics but instead involve a connection beyond spatial limits.
- **Experimental Verification**: Experiments on quantum entanglement demonstrate that such non-local correlations between particles are a part of physical reality.

That is awesome!

3. Quantum Entanglement
- **Entangled State**: Two or more particles can be correlated in a way that the measurement of one particle immediately affects the state of another particle, regardless of the distance between them. This phenomenon is known as quantum entanglement.
- **Experiment**: Bell's theorem experiments confirm quantum entanglement, showing instantaneous correlations between particles over long distances.

Here is also interesting paper on Quantum Entanglement as well:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41566-023-01272-3

Have some awesome stuff, for example the first image of it here:

Random, thank you

Apart from quantum mechanics, there’s another concept that fascinates me: Fractals.

I think Fractals have some correlation with the subdivision charts in Indian astrology and dodecatemoria.