therese!

thanks so much for your 930pm post of friday... i have been out of town the past 2 nights, but back home now.. i like how you explained all that. thanks!

on a related note, there are so many new techniques, it is hard to know how to stay on top of them all.. i suspect one can't.. i got into midpoints a long time ago thanks the work of the hamburg school of astrology influences - mostly ebertin, but also some witte too.. it does hold a special fascination for me... there are some outstanding midpoint patterns in kamala harris's chart... i haven't accidentally noticed this in trumps chart and i haven't looked closely either - yet..

as for kamalas fighting spirit - saturday 751pm post - related to the moon in aries and mars in cancer - what was her attitude towards the 3 strikes and you are out concept? do you know?? really though, it raises the question of a mutual exchange where one of the planets is in poor celestial shape... what are the implications?? or - can mars in poor celestial shape be overcome somehow??? i am not sure how it plays out in kamala harris's chart and i know to get anywhere in politics, there is typically a lot of corruption and action or non action which allows for things to unfold a particular way.. i think my problem with kamala is it appears a lot has been handed to her, as opposed to her working for it... i could be totally wrong, but that is my impression of her..

James wrote:

As for kamalas fighting spirit - saturday 751pm post - related to the moon in aries and mars in cancer - what was her attitude towards the 3 strikes and you are out concept? do you know?? really though, it raises the question of a mutual exchange where one of the planets is in poor celestial shape... what are the implications?? or - can mars in poor celestial shape be overcome somehow???

I'm sorry, James. I don't know Kamala's stand on most issues. I don't follow politics closely due to lack of time and mental energy. I'm taking a special interest in Kamala Harris because my home happened to be in her area, and, well, she's a woman, and all that, and may well be the next U.S. president! And I read the on-line San Francisco paper which emphasizes her accomplishments with full color pages of images and text.

I think you are talking about Mars in fall in Cancer when you mention "poor celestial shape?" I place very little or no emphasis on the sign position of planets in the natal chart because they last a long period of time. This is where I believe the Indian navamsa chart is helpful. The sign position of planets in that chart are said to be more important. So Kamala's Mars is in navamsa Pisces, a good position since Mars is a Hellenistic lord of that triplicity of Cancer-Scorpio-Pisces.

And that Mars falls in Kamala Harris' 10th natal house of Pisces so directly relates to her political career. Sidereal Pisces by the way carries the energy of tropical Aries since it's in the same ecliptic sky area. As the early Fagan astrologers will tell you, tropical Aries is really sidereal Pisces (sky area of stars of Pisces constellation)--whose main triplicity lord is Mars.

Speaking of navamsa planets, Kamala's navamsa ascendant is 10 degrees of Libra. So that ascendant falls on her natal Sun and Mercury. This is one important indication of her political prominence. This navamsa to natal crossover is one of the new developments in Indian astrology. Also to note and use the precise navamsa degrees is a new development, especially in crossovers to the natal chart. These crossovers are extremely important and can distinguish between the chart of a murderer and a saint.

Therese,
How do you view the Lord and the Sub-Lord of a position?
Is one stronger or do you blend them together?

Ouranos wrote:

How do you view the Lord and the Sub-Lord of a position?
Is one stronger or do you blend them together?

Ouranos, thanks for your question. I explained this a few posts back, but here is the explanation again. I'll be happy to explain in more detail if you are interested. In my posts of charts, I have over-simlified the Krishnamurti principles. (I have added italics to my quote here.)

Yes, I can understand why subs can be very confusing. I should explain them briefly which uses the same principle as dividing signs into three decans or the twelve dwads.

Each of the 27 lunar mansions (often referred to as "stars" or nakshatras) has a ruling planet, and each lunar mansion is divided into nine, each small division or sub ruled by a planet in the same order as the mansions as they run through the zodiac. So very simply: The mansion lord shows the natal area of emphasis (natal house and lord). The sub (supposedly) shows if the transit will act for good or ill based on the planet in the natal chart.

The usual Krishnamurti and very fixed rule is often stated as: "Star [mansion or nakshatra] proposes and Sub disposes. Star indicates involvement and the Sub indicates commitment." (Quote from S. P. Khullar)

Thank you for the clarification Therese,

What is unclear to me is...
You have the natal with Lord and Sub-Lord as you explain.
But in the case of an ennead, planets will be moved to a different degree (with Lord and Sub-Lord)
What relationship do you establish then in the new Divisional chart?
Do you always come back to the natal to validate the Ennead?

Ouranos wrote:
What is unclear to me is...

You have the natal with Lord and Sub-Lord as you explain.
But in the case of an ennead, planets will be moved to a different degree (with Lord and Sub-Lord)

Yes, and since the ennead is a progression of the natal chart, this chart describes what is happening NOW with the natal planets in transit. (Remember that in this whole interpretation process I'm experimenting and learning, testing the Krishnamurti principles.)

What relationship do you establish then in the new Divisional chart?

Do you mean the ennead as the Divisional chart? We don't use ennead house lords as such. We only look at planets in houses, mostly those that contact angles: Asc, Desc.. MC/IC. I'm not sure at the moment if we use whole sign houses in the ennead chart or (as I consider houses) the equal cusps as centers of 30 degree houses. I most definitely do not use Placidus houses as Krishnamurti did. But he didn't know about ennead charts.

Do you always come back to the natal to validate the Ennead?

Yes, the mansion and sub positions of ennead planets always refer back to the natal chart. Also we have to see the ennead in a bi-wheel so we can see which natal planets are brought to the angles.

I appreciate your questions, Ouranos, because as astrologers we tend to ask too few questions and just go on with whatever we are doing. So we have a zillion different opinions and no proof for much of anything.

We don't use ennead house lords as such. We only look at planets in houses, mostly those that contact angles: Asc, Desc.. MC/IC.

I see. Angularity is what defines the period.
I know that there is also the concept of 'friends and enemies' between planets. Like the Sun being enemy to Saturn.
Is there such a concept also between Nakshatras? Like the Moon being in the natal 5th Nakshatra and transiting in the 19th Nakshatra.
Is there something similar of friend and enemy in the latter?

Appreciate your feedback,
Ouranos

Ouranos wrote:

I see. Angularity is what defines the [ennead]period.

Not just angularity. I've been thinking about houses in ennead charts, and it's not really about house placement. It's more that there are 12 spokes in the chart representing house concepts, repeating the ascendant degree around the chart. So any planet on a spoke can aspect an angle which makes that planet important. In Kamala Harris' July 31 ennead (posted above) the Sun is on the third spoke, 3rd house symbolism and trine cusp 7. Certainly her public role (Sun) this month has been campaign communication, especially at the Democratic Convention. But this "spoke represents house symbolism" needs a lot more research.

I know that there is also the concept of 'friends and enemies' between planets. Like the Sun being enemy to Saturn.
Is there such a concept also between Nakshatras? Like the Moon being in the natal 5th Nakshatra and transiting in the 19th Nakshatra.Is there something similar of friend and enemy in the latter?

I've seen mutual reception between nakshatra lords mentioned in natal analysis, but it's not traditional and not used in the Krishnamurti predictive system. Basically the Krisnamurti/Khullar predictive system tends to ignore everything except mansion lords and sub lords of planets and house cusps. Friends and enemies? No. The friend/enemy concept is used in natal chart interpretation.

Hi everyone - for your interest:

viewtopic.php?t=12669

This provides a link to download the harmonic solar return script I have been working on which you can use within Planetdance, Jean Cremer's astrological freeware.

Ed

therese

thanks for your additional comments and input on my questions.. below is the navamsa chart for kamala harris off a screen shot from my solar fire prog.. i am sure someone could produce a better picture of it..



below is a biwheel of her natal chart with the navamsa chart.. it highlights what you are mentioning..



regarding the 3 strikes your out rule introduced over 20 years ago - here is a link to an article that discusses kamala harris track record as a prosecutor that some might be interested in reviewing.. it seems to me climbing the political ladder is more apparent then righting the wrongs that have happened.. perhaps this is explained by kamala harris saturn in the midheaven? i think it might be.. saturn is an interesting planet in terms of the idea of justice.. that she is primarily known as a prosecutor makes a lot of sense... it becomes a question of what are the motives behind the outer roles being played? is it for bringing greater justice to bear on both sides of the question, or is it for gaining a greater power? it is next to impossible to know a persons intent, but one can ponder all this.. perhaps with most people it is a combination of both and it is a question of having a balanced outlook..

https://theappeal.org/politicalreport/k ... atter-era/

James wrote:

Here is a link to an article that discusses kamala harris track record as a prosecutor that some might be interested in reviewing.. it seems to me climbing the political ladder is more apparent then righting the wrongs that have happened..

James, isn't that what politics has always been about? As I've said before, I'm not qualified to discuss track records or political ins and outs. My interest in Kamala Harris strictly concerns her role as a woman of mixed race who happens to be the Democratic nominee for president of the United States.

Thank you for your charts and link to the article, but I couldn't get that link to go to the article. That might be due to my very old computer.

thanks therese

here is another biwheel like the previous one except with the navamsa chart and libra rising as the reference with natal planets on the outside..



venus in scorpio rules the libra ascendant in the navamsa chart.. i am not sure what the sub lords are.. turns out saturn is the star lord and moon is the sub lord for venus in the navamsa chart... venus is also conjunct sun and saturn.. ordinarily a venus-saturn conjunction is not so favourable, but perhaps the fact saturn rules the 4-5 houses makes it less of a problem.. i really haven't worked with sub lords enough to know their merit.... i have the table of sublords that i have pulled out just for this occasion!