calli

thanks for sharing your thoughts here.. i liked what you said in your Tue May 28, 2024 7:47 am post...

jason,

i liked your response here as well.. i think the 'limits' part is called karma in a different culture... i like the idea that the opposition of fate and free will could somehow be transcended...

Jason wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 8:56 am
I think I mostly agree with you here. My sense is that Being is Time. The idea that time 'flows' and is separate from us is just a useful illusion that helps us make sense of things. People and things don't move through time. We are time itself. And now is the only real-time.

The past is not where we think it is, even though we act like it is. Only thoughts, photos, and other things from the present can help us remember it. And right now is also the future because nothing can happen in the future that doesn't depend on how things are right now.

Only this moment is our real life. We have a bit of a "choose your own adventure" situation, but (and maybe this is where we see things differently here, Calli?) with limits.

In my humble opinion, this has implications for the fate vs. free will debate: It allows for both and negates the argument altogether.

Calli wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 7:38 am But I do make use of event astrology to show me the motivations contained in a moment. Always very interesting. Keeps boredom at bay as I while away time at some coffee place watching the crowd around me.

Whenever I stop to think about what is meaningful and what is not, I often find myself falling into a state of panic. Deep down, I feel that nothing has any real meaning. To alleviate and avoid this sense of panic and emptiness, I find that I can only focus on the task at hand. If I cannot find something to occupy myself with, I turn my attention to my breathing.

Wei wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 5:49 am Whenever I stop to think about what is meaningful and what is not, I often find myself falling into a state of panic. Deep down, I feel that nothing has any real meaning.

Wei, You've mentioned this before and it interests me greatly. Deep down, I have the opposite sense—I feel life is bursting with meaning—so much so that at times I have to reign it in. If only I had a way to transmit some of what I've got to you, maybe we could both be more balanced.

There was a time, a few years back, when I was engulfed in a profound existential crisis. It was during the transit of Saturn through my 9th house. I found myself grappling with intense pessimism, even nihilism, and the overwhelming feeling of life's meaninglessness.

I don't really know what to say, or what I'm even trying to say here in response to your comments above. There's probably nothing to say. It's just that reading your words provoked a response somewhere deep within me. Maybe just a simple message to say "I hear you" or convey that I understand in my own way the way you are feeling is all I really hope to do.

Maybe you'll smile a little when you read this. I can hope so, right? I promise it's ok to. It doesn't have to mean anything, I swear.

Wei wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 5:49 amWhenever I stop to think about what is meaningful and what is not, I often find myself falling into a state of panic. Deep down, I feel that nothing has any real meaning.

It depends on what one understands by “meaning”.

Deep inside I feel that nothing profane has any meaning and at the same time all is full of meaning. In my case this “feeling” is a release. No panic arises. I enjoy it.

Wei wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 5:49 amTo alleviate and avoid this sense of panic and emptiness, I find that I can only focus on the task at hand. If I cannot find something to occupy myself with, I turn my attention to my breathing.

How different people are! (Or how different terms can be understood?)

I stay as long as possible in this state of emptiness, try to avoid any distraction and afterwards I still can appreciate it for a while. It’s too bad that you have complete other experiences of meaninglessness and meaningfullness!

I don't normally participate or read posts on the horary forum, but as I happened to glance over it today, I saw my own name mentioned:

james_m wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 3:49 pm this reminds me of martin waxing poetically on about the use and importance of primary directions, but ironically i never see him demonstrating them in real time... maybe he is not so much a practitioner as a historian or maybe he opts to keep this part of his work private and his commentary on skyscript is just for attracting students... i don't know..

I did see some personal comments in questionable taste on another forum as well some days ago but decided to ignore them (though if they had been about another moderator or forum member, I wouldn't have). But before this becomes a habit (or more of one): please desist from such comments, about anyone, on any forum. Let's discuss astrology, not astrologers.

To set the record straight, and as anyone who takes the trouble can see from my website, I am both a scholar and a practitioner, meaning that I do routinely use primary directions (among other techniques) in actual predictive work. What I do not do is give free readings on Skyscript or other public forums, solicit students here, or waste time trying to convince anyone of anything (particularly not people who are openly rude and disrespectful, and whose opinion carries no weight with me in any case). And naturally all my consultation work is private, although some clients' charts have, with their permission, found their way into my books.

This matter has nothing to do with me. Both James and Martin are teachers whom I like and respect. However, witnessing people arguing still makes me feel uncomfortable.

I just want to say that I don't really feel like criticizing or commenting on others at the moment. There is only oneself, not others. (I'm not sure if this sentence is clear.)

Perhaps I am extremely selfish and narcissistic, but I don't really want to concern myself with others. I just want to become the kind of person that even I like.ヽ(✿ﾟ▽ﾟ)ノ

james_m wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 5:09 pm wei

that sounds fairly complicated... i don't know if it is possible for me to understand you very well here... thanks for your response regardless..

It's not complicated. You can think of the omniscient God as the latest quantum computer, while my brain is more akin to an i486 or even less advanced.(｡í _ ì｡) LoL

wei

thanks.. i share you concern here.. in fact i was quite unhappy to witness the dynamics at skyscript in the past where i felt deb and martin were attacking chris brennan... i wasn't impressed with that either, so i share you disappointment in seeing this exchange here as well...

i like your analogy and that helps explain your position a bit better to me.. thanks!

james_m wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 3:56 pm in fact i was quite unhappy to witness the dynamics at skyscript in the past where i felt deb and martin were attacking chris brennan... i wasn't impressed with that either, so i share you disappointment in seeing this exchange here as well...

I assumed this might be the situation.

Everyone has their own preferences, favorites, (and judgments). I can only say that this incident will not diminish my respect for all astrologers.

Whether online (without having met face-to-face) or in person (having actually met), I strive to treat others with sincerity. Sometimes, despite my sincere efforts, I may not receive the same sincerity in return. Nevertheless, I still aim to maintain consistency in my behavior and intentions. However, if we were to become friends (truly acquainted), I believe it would be preferable to have met each other in person.

I'll take my leave from this matter for now, haha, and continue reading books. (*´▽`*)

Wei wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 5:49 am

Calli wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 7:38 am But I do make use of event astrology to show me the motivations contained in a moment. Always very interesting. Keeps boredom at bay as I while away time at some coffee place watching the crowd around me.

Whenever I stop to think about what is meaningful and what is not, I often find myself falling into a state of panic. Deep down, I feel that nothing has any real meaning. To alleviate and avoid this sense of panic and emptiness, I find that I can only focus on the task at hand. If I cannot find something to occupy myself with, I turn my attention to my breathing.

101 of meditation…focus on anything you can hear…footsteps, breathings … while your ears are engaged processing noise, your mind cannot engage and is still. Try it and see. Brain cannot operate! And thats meditation.

Nothing here has any real meaning. And yet it all has. I recall years ago finally finding my own ‘book of life’ . I had sought it everywhere and finally it was brought to me. As I turned the pages there were short and long passages. As I ran my hand over the passages I gained a high level understanding of the experience or ‘life’. Some were technical and difficult to understand, some short like happy butterflies…..one was very long, difficult, sad … but oh so beautiful. I guess its the depth of stirred emotion that impresses into us and leaves this passion passage that in the end rises above all else in its beauty. I have that always in mind as I struggle onwards, that one day all this will be part of my history and I will look over it with delight!

So that dear stranger, is the meaning….what we give it at the moment we create it…..and later take from it on reflection!

So you will review this passage with amusement over how dull it was. Not too shabby! Its still to give you reflection. Enjoy because it wont always be this.

Jason wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 8:56 am Calli, Thanks for sharing some of your thoughts here in the thread. I enjoyed reading them.

Calli wrote: But I do make use of event astrology to show me the motivations contained in a moment. Always very interesting. Keeps boredom at bay as I while away time at some coffee place watching the crowd around me.

I'm glad to hear someone else say this. I like to do the same. I prefer it over other forms of astrology these days. I find the exercise simultaneously invigorates and relaxes me.

Calli wrote: What you are then trying to predict is, which of the limitless futures will actuate in matter... you are the creator of your future ... each and every instance contains the entirety of creation ...

I think I mostly agree with you here. My sense is that Being is Time. The idea that time 'flows' and is separate from us is just a useful illusion that helps us make sense of things. People and things don't move through time. We are time itself. And now is the only real-time.

The past is not where we think it is, even though we act like it is. Only thoughts, photos, and other things from the present can help us remember it. And right now is also the future because nothing can happen in the future that doesn't depend on how things are right now.

Only this moment is our real life. We have a bit of a "choose your own adventure" situation, but (and maybe this is where we see things differently here, Calli?) with limits.

In my humble opinion, this has implications for the fate vs. free will debate: It allows for both and negates the argument altogether.

Fate vs free will.

We are the creators of our fate. We have free will guaranteed. Of course we agree to limit some aspects of free will to fit within this dimension of matter with its rules but out free will is never given up.

We each create our lives how we want to experience them for the purpose that we drive towards. Nobody decides for us. Thats is impossible. Nobody knows us or who we are, so how can they? i have always felt the hand of fate on my life and at times I have felt as though I have been picked up by the scruff of my neck and shaken down and dumped back on the path. But I know its me …the real whole me not the offshoot created to experience this scenic route life. The high level me that guides this animal body to wear and experience it in symbiotic unison who knows what is to be experienced, done, felt, learnt, so that it gets its value and purpose achieved.

And to be honest I dont know what is the purpose but I willingly struggle on securely knowing some version of me does. I do my thing as best I can and carry the load and even look for more load! I see value in looking back with satisfaction that I helped somewhere, shared something, received some companionship….

So yes free will…ie the real big planner me makes the plan…the fated me or the low me runs about dying of fright living it.

And when i ….down here…. decide enough is enough and rebel to take the planned step…..the real me circles back, gives me a moment and then more or less shoves me forward.

Another concept: There is no free will at all. Not a spot of it.

Albert Einstein wrote:“You can do what you want but you cannot want what you want.” (Albert Einstein summarizes Arthur Schopenhauer)

This is a complicated issue and I don't believe there is necessarily one standard answer here. It is up to the artist and what they feel comfortable doing and what works for them.

I think it can sometimes be a challenge to explain to novices seeking a reading what it means to have a question that one would realistically believe "the heavens" want to answer. You can ask silly questions until the cows come home, but often the charts are not radical and are complete gibberish. Some astrologers disagree and would blame the astrologer for not being good enough at their job to translate gibberish into something coherent, or that, for some reason, they are special and "the heavens" don't give them gibberish charts .

Many of us have come to the conclusion it is because the querent has not thought the question through enough, or it does not ultimately matter enough to the querent, to answer. That is my standard approach. I normally tell the person the question should be something that matters to them and that they might need help with. There isn't much point in asking a question when it doesn't help in some way. Sometimes it can even make matters worse to know something just for the sake of knowing them alone. An example might be a question of whether or not someone will get a job. Is it helpful to know they won't get a job? Probably not since it could even be a self fulfilling prophecy. I try to guide people in what they really are trying to ask. A more helpful approach might be, "is this job opportunity one that would be positive for me if I were to get it?"

There will always be the astrologer who believes any question can be answered. I believe any question that matters to a querent might be answered. My own moral dilemmas sometimes come into play here as the artist, where I don't believe a question is one that should be answered. This philosophical discussion is probably a lot easier for more pragmatic people who do not consider the outcome of their actions in answering certain questions. I do think divination should be used to help guide people towards, hopefully, some sort of good for themselves and others. I think as artists we are given these gifts for a reason and to hopefully do some good with what we have been given, or at least try our best.

To be frank, some questions are not seeking good - they may be manipulative questions, prying into the privacy of others, or whatever other approach a person who operates from a basic place of humanity is not going to want to answer. I have more issue with this than a silly question asked out of boredom (although I do think these questions often do lead to gibberish charts). I have a Sag Moon lording my chart though so I may just be sanctimonious.