Bill Meridian even has his own wikipedia page and has met members of the Trump family personally so that sounds fun. I'd love to have dinner with the Trumps, there's a decent chippy round the corner, they might even throw in some 'scratchings'* for Donald as an extra treat. Anyway apparently the family members confirmed the time, therefore I'm sorry to announce to Mark that his hard work collating results has come to naught as apparently we're all using the wrong chart!

See...TIME 45:47 / 2:22:07

]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdBWWmpV_us




I'm still sticking with Kamala..god knows why, from what I've seen so far she's bloomin' useless!



* A bag of batter pieces that is an essential part of any UK chippy experience.. round my way we call them scratchings. Also known as Cratchings? Scraps? Scrumps? Batter Bits?

Yes, I have checked the video Greg.

That would put his natal AS at 17Leo37 and his natal MC at 8Tau35
But I have not tested this chart. It would be interesting to see what PD shows up when he was elected.

"Source Notes
PT quotes birth certificate found online. Since the document was evidently posted by Trump, some caution is advised even though there is no evidence that the document was altered. Previously this entry was rated "A" (from memory) and had a birth time of 9:51 AM with the following source notes: LMR quotes a private source who obtained the data from his mother, confirmed by another astrologer who said, "He laughed, then called his mom."

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Trump,_Donald

meridian lists 4 reasons - 46'20" of gregs video..
1 - mom -(charles) jayne said mom was usually correct...
2. lynne palmer was djts astrologer and she used this time..
3. dined with trump family members many times in london and abu dhabi and they confirmed the time..
4. i rectified the chart...

lets smash the first 3, shall we?? - my mom was wrong by 1/2 hour.. lynne palmer and family members got the birth time from ''mom''..
as for 4... - present the work, or it is just another wrectification by another astrologer...

i call bs.. sorry..

For what it’s worth, Astro Databank gives a 10.54am birth time for Trump with a Rodden AA rating. I follow a Vedic astrologer, Gurmeet Singh, who “… I further rectified Trump’s birth time slightly to 10.52.30 am.”.

https://www.vedicnakshatras.com/joe-bid ... ology.html

I guess there will always be questions over the accuracy of birth times, and it really comes down to which time each individual astrologer is most comfortable with for whatever reasons they have.

Yes I think James is probably right on this and I'd like to keep Kronos on the MC as it fits with the wealth and opulence of Trump Towers.

Sadge's time of 10.52 also has its hits -
MO/HA + MC = Calumniation through women. To be enmeshed by women. Slandered, worried.



The BC should suffice for now. I'm more alarmed by his view that Trump will win.

I am firmly in the group 'for' 9:51 am... for many, MANY reasons! Back in the summer of 2017 - Trump's early months as President - I was asked to join a remarkable panel of 'experts' on that August 2017 Great American Eclipse... which (for me) opened up this entire 'can of worms' on Trump's birth time. This resulted in a (relatively short) research paper I asked Kepler College to publish. For 2-3 years it was included in their articles. But in 'migrating' their website the article was lost. Bill Sarubbi, a colleague of Bill Meridian's, asked me about it - and that was when I realized it had gone missing! I dug through ALL my 'old' computer work and finally found it!! You can read my personal journey on this issue here:

http://www.friendsofastrology.org/christine-arens.html

The article was originally entitled "Donald Trump's Birth Time Mystery", and was written in the summer of 2017. Over the intervening years I have spoken with more than a few astrologers about Trump's chart. For the AstrologyHub seminar I spoke on that 'Great American Eclipse' as an expert on "Mundane and Natal Eclipses". Trump has the WORST natal Lunar Eclipse chart I have ever seen in 50+ years of working specifically with eclipses and doing astrology!! That eclipse is a 'power-house' that feeds into his natal trine with Jupiter... which perfectly explains his 'legal history' - and how he has been able to tie up the US legal system into KNOTS!!

For a more complete understanding of Trump and his chart (AND the issues!) I invite you all to read my article from back in 2017!

I am firmly in the group 'for' 9:51 am... for many, MANY reasons!

Interesting story Carens.
Thank you for sharing.
Now, how would you explain astrologically for a 9:51 birth time that he became President Nov 5, 2016?

Trump has the WORST natal Lunar Eclipse chart I have ever seen in 50+ years of working specifically with eclipses and doing astrology!!

Agree! Not only is it a natal Lunar Eclipse but an occultation of of Uranus conjunct his natal Sun. And Vulcanus is also in the picture (sudden appearance of forces, mighty tension, new kind of energy)


I did a study of the last 4 Presidents (Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden) under the lens of Uranian astrology.
https://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12086

And using the mipoint SU/KR = Power of the state, President and the Aries Point = the World and public appearance.
I know Gary Christen is very skilled with this system. Did he come up with some evidence from that perspective with the 9:51 am birth chart?

By Solar Arc for 10:54 a.m.
His Solar Arc Sun reached his ASC, he became the 45th President of the United States.
Which is also the Sum of Sun/Kronos in his chart over the Fixed Star Regulus.
And the Solar Arc Aries Point reached his natal Sun/Kronos midpoint (Leading or ruling personage). The latter showing up for both times.

I will have a closer look at this new proposition for 9:51 a.m.

Thank you,
Ouranos

going back to look at the 2016 usa election predictions here at skyscript, i was able to use a search engine to pull up the predictions for 2016.. at the time there was one prediction that was given to skyscript january 15th 2016 by an ellen poster which was quite interesting... down below is a link to the 2016 usa presidential predictions made, along with ellens post from january 2016.

viewtopic.php?t=9205

https://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9001

anyway, i am not sure if it was ellens prediction way in advance but it was either that or someone else as i recall a women poster, had also relied on the use of the eclipse data off the 1054 am birth time for trump winning.. hillary clintons chart was a complete mystery at the time.. the time for her was finally found out a few years after this event...

gary christen predicted a clinton win in 2016, but again - faulty data might explain this..

fwiw - deb was so impressed with ellens prediction that she shared that thread again after the election...

Yes James,
Ellen's analysis is straight and to the point.
The one thing I would disagree with her is looking at Trump's Solar Return from his golf course in Scotland.
As far as I am concerned, he did not become President of Scotland!
For a relocation yes.
But looking at the number of predictions listed by Mark, would it be wiser to stay away from predictions?
But the torture is about be over Nov 5th. I stopped reading the reality show in the news. For my mental health.

Cheers!
Ouranos

So how did Trump win in 2016 you ask? ?? It has a lot to do with 1) the structure of US elections - by Electoral College, not 'popular' vote, and 2) political apathy at the time. Yes he 'won', but he did not win on 'popularity'. If you look a little more closely at Trump's natal chart... yes it is a Lunar Eclipse - but above that it is a TOTAL LUNAR ECLIPSE! From my decades with eclipse work, Lunar Eclipses are MORE rare than Solar ones. (I think it was 1939 there were NONE!!) And a Total Lunar Eclipse is the "rarest of the rare"! For the record - check the placements of the Lunar Nodes... the closer they are to the eclipse point, the more powerful they become. And Trump's are almost dead on!!

As for US 'politics' - it's messy to try to 'navigate'! Under Obama the Republican far-right 'fringe' developed the "Tea Party", which railed against "big government". This, in essence, has morphed into the MAGA movement. In 2016 many (if not most) Americans saw government as a form of "Big Brother" - a behemoth that had become overgrown and needed to be pared down. Trump was the "right" person at the "right" time. He had the name recognition and persona as a television "star" - whose famous words were "YOU'RE FIRED!". He was a political 'outsider' and businessman who could - perhaps - start to "fix" government. The system of the Electoral College gave more sparsely populated states a "say" in elections, and I would say that is what happened in 2016. Trump 'carried' more of these states - enough to win. He did NOT win by popular vote.

But to return to his chart - I take note of Alphee Lavoie's 'question' of Trump's Mars placement. In the intervening years a First House Mars becomes more and more likely. Then too - Trump's Sun is ABOVE the horizon. His Moon (the public and women) is TOTALLY obscured. Between the two positions HE will "rule'!!

carens wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:55 am So how did Trump win in 2016 you ask? ??

It was a surprise.
Maybe the direction on Uranus?
But that doesn't fit to the marriage with Melania
and the birth of their son in the next year.
On 0 cancer.

ouranos, here is what i wanted to tell you.
this is a quote from marks post on this in the top link
"Name: Gary Christen
USA
Zodiac: Tropical
Tradition/School: Modern (Uranian)
Technique(s):
Note: Prediction issued in Winter 2015 to subscribers

perhaps gary christen will give you this data on his prediction if you ask him??

as for the rest of your post - hindsight is 20/20, lol!!

i am not into relocated solar returns, so much as the birth solar returns, but to each their own...

carens

the 1054 am chart for trump is very much a ''first house'' mars... the regal star regulus is also very much a part of his mars-ascendant conjunction.. i don't know that any of those astrologers who predicted trump would win in 2016 were using the 951am time.. cheers.. "

a positive shout out to deb who helped me figure out why i was getting the 403 forbidden message.. thanks deb!