Jupiter square Saturn signifies the death of 'rulers' whether they be Kings or Presidents and whilst this is hopefully not the case it does seem to indicate a difficult beginning of the year for our leaders. Surely the Monarchy has taken enough of a pummelling in 2024 so it's hard to foresee this annus becoming any more horribiliser than that annus (if you get my drift) . Pr. Andrew again? Harry returning as the prodigal son? Wills tearing his hair(s) out!

The period around Jan 20th (US Inauguration) could be a tricky time with the Nodes on the Aries Point. Jupiter rules over Saturn thus helping to assuage the actions of any potential evildoers but with both Mars and the Moon 'out of bounds' there is a feeling of danger in the air. Maybe Melania should take a leaf out of Nancy Reagan's book and consult a modern day Joanne Quigley for a less tempestuous period in which to hold an Inauguration. Maybe somewhere more remote and less open to the public than Washington DC - on top of Mt. Rushmore perhaps?

Not an easy day.....Chiron-Black Lilith-Mars t-square. Venus conjunct Saturn in 12th

Hi Greg - could you clarify the data for this chart please. I'm not quite sure what this moment represents. I get different angles for a diurnal chart cast for Trump at his birth place.



Thanks. Ed

Donald Trump Diurnal for Inauguration
Date of Birth (local time):20 January 2025 - 10:45 (EST)Universal Time (UT/GMT):20 January 2025 - 15:45 Local Sidereal Time (LST):18:50:53House system:Placidus systemLatitude, Longitude:40°41'N, 73°48'WCity:New York
Country:United States United States (US), NY

Hi Ed, I think I rectified the chart by a few minutes awhile ago. It would have mentioned it but I'd forgotten I'd moved it back a bit. So here's the chart I get now from astroseek. It doesn't make a huge difference to anything but as I'm a bit guarded about the rectification it's useful to compare it. Placidus houses of course.

I suppose one could argue that with Mars now tightly square the angles it arguably makes the chart a little more negative using the given data. It's the only rectification I've ever done! I remember not being happy with the sabian symbol for the ascendant and changing it.

Hi Greg - thanks for the clarification. I am not sure that the chart from astro-seek applies the correct zone correction. It seems to have used a 5 hour correction instead of a 4 hour correction. To get the correct diurnal chart for 20 January 2025 using Trump's birth place, you should use 9.54AM if using astro-seek. The correct chart, using both Planetdance and Janus 6 gives an ascendant of 29 PI 53. This makes his 6th house Porphyry cusp 29 Leo 55, very close to his natal ascendant.

To me this does not bode well. In my experience, the 6th house diurnal cusp is quite malefic. He has diurnal Sun and Pluto on his diurnal 11th house cusp and very close to his natal 6th house cusp. Again this does not seem to portend good things. Other alignments of note include diurnal Neptune rising on his natal 8th house cusp. The alignment of both the diurnal and natal ascendants with the cusps of malefic houses seems very difficult to me.

The diurnal chart is on the inner wheel; the natal chart, using the 10.54AM time is on the outer wheel.

Here is the corrected chart from astro-seek:



To get the correct diurnal chart for the birthplace the same Universal Time as the actual birthday has to be used. Looking at astro-seek's calculation for 20 January 2025 it is using 15:54UT rather than 14:54UT, which was the UT on Trump's birthday, hence the need to calculate the diurnal for 9:54AM.

Trump's diurnal ASC (29 Pis 53) and MC (29 Sag 56) are both = NN/Aries Point in his natal 8th/diurnal AS
Connections with many(NN) in public life and to the world (AR). A slight correction to his birth time would put his diurnal AS in Aries, with his monthly ruler transiting Mars R conjunct natal SA in his 11th and ruling his 5th.

Diurnal AS/MC also sextile the transiting SU-PL in Aquarius . All matters linked to his ego power, sense of pride and self-confidence. Generally all the Sun activities are favored like becoming a President.

Transiting MA, his diurnal ruler conjunct his natal Saturn (11th) indicates separation from close friends and allies. The transiting MA cycle is paramount for him right now.
What's more the transiting midpoint SU/KR (president) = natal SA
Another example of SA=SU/KR is Jordan Bardella, the president of the right-wing movement in France.

I'm not sure about the need to fiddle with Trump's birth time. To me the rising Neptune and the ascendant in the final degree of the zodiac says more about the potential for Trump's presidency than a diurnal chart with Aries rising. It seems to me his pitch is very nostalgic - Make America Great (Again). A rising Neptune in the final degrees of it's passage through the whole zodiac seems to speak loudly of nostalgia for a long lost past. A Neptunian cycle is closing and it's understandable to want things to be as they were, but I don't think the world works like this.

Neptune last entered Aries in 1861-1862. The dates of the ingress were:

13/04/1861 21:22 Neptune enters Ari
01/10/1861 06:38 Nep re-enters Pis
14/02/1862 01:18 Neptune enters Ari

Wikipedia gives the date of the start of the American Civil War as 12 April 1861. The dreams and ideals associated with this cycle are now in the final phase of passing. What has been acceptable as a primary belief system no longer seems to be working. The full import of the new vision won't be known for some time I'm sure, but perhaps by the end of this decade the beginnings of new way of seeing things might be becoming clear.

With these degrees rising, it's important to take account of the fixed star Scheat. Ebertin and Hoffman say that Scheat 'tied up' with malefic potentially has a negative effect. In this context I would take Neptune as malefic, and it is being chased by malefic Saturn through Pisces. The conjunction, which is a single pass, will occur at the beginning of 2026, but the distance between the two planets will close through the course of 2025. The Saturn-Neptune conjunction will take place in the degree occupied the rising node in this chart.

One possible interpretation of the Saturn-Neptune conjunction in the first degree of Aries is that the reality of US nostalgia will be laid bare, and the need to start again with a new vision will be unavoidable. I don't see Trump being the source of this new vision. His pitch is so totally about recreating a glorious imagined past that I don't think envisioning an alternative future will come from the MAGA camp.

I wonder if this diurnal chart will resonate for the duration of his presidency. To me this diurnal chart doesn't portend great things. Rather, it seems to me, that it says more about the end of our current view of how the world is and has been. To resolve the challenges facing the US and the wider global community will, I believe, take more imagination than a second Trump presidency may be able to muster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War

astralwanderer wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 5:43 pm Here is the corrected chart from astro-seek:


trump astro-seek.png



To get the correct diurnal chart for the birthplace the same Universal Time as the actual birthday has to be used. Looking at astro-seek's calculation for 20 January 2025 it is using 15:54UT rather than 14:54UT, which was the UT on Trump's birthday, hence the need to calculate the diurnal for 9:54AM.

Thanks Ed, I'll use PlanetDance in future,. I have an old Astrocalc program but for some reason it won't open in Windows 11 and no-one answers at Astrocalc itself.

I'm not sure about the need to fiddle with Trump's birth time. To me the rising Neptune and the ascendant in the final degree of the zodiac says more about the potential for Trump's presidency than a diurnal chart with Aries rising. It seems to me his pitch is very nostalgic - Make America Great (Again). A rising Neptune in the final degrees of it's passage through the whole zodiac seems to speak loudly of nostalgia for a long lost past. A Neptunian cycle is closing and it's understandable to want things to be as they were, but I don't think the world works like this.

Yes that's a good point, Ed. I was thinking more on the grounds of unpredictable events globally around January/February based on the previous Uranus station charts but on a whim used Trumps diurnal as it's still a very risky time for him personally and the US as a whole. Fortunately I think the new corrected chart is slightly more positive for him but that's just the one day in over a month which is quite volatile.

Thanks Greg - It's worth having a look at Planetdance. You can download fromwww.jcremers.com.

With respect to Trump's birth time, I feel it's important to stick with the data we have.

From astro.com:

Name Trump, Donald Gender: M
Birthname Donald John Trump
born on 14 June 1946 at 10:54 (= 10:54 AM )
Place Jamaica Hospital Queens (Queens County), New York, 40n42, 73w4859
Timezone EDT h4w (is daylight saving time)
Data source
BC/BR in hand
Rodden Rating AA
Collector: Rodden

This is probably as good as it gets data-wise so I tend to go with this.

Ed

Good points Greg and astralwanderer,
A day doesn't make a season. But we know that he is entering a month with Aries on the diurnal AS.

Let's remember that natally Trump has MO/ME at the Aries Point. His personal diary is an open book to the world with his daily moods and comments on the social medias.
Yet, to swear in with transiting MA conjunct natal Saturn = SU/KR suggests that he will not reach the end of his mandate. Speculations on the reasons why is up for grab.

When SA/NE hits the Aries Point, the Prince of Mar-a-Lago transforms the reality into a fairytale (savior or victim), the collective reality hits the fan.

"Have you ever heard what the wise men say; all the future exists in the past.". Truman Capote

interesting thread and commentary!

ed - i liked what you said in your 1248pm post..

ouranos - interesting astro speculation on your part as well..

sometimes i get to wondering about the various charts that reflect different predictive astro techniques and whether i am supposed to look at them in a completely symbolic manner, or that maybe some of them are more substantial then others.. there are a lot of charts in the running to consider... in reference to all this, first we have trumps chart, with the various extensions to it - transits, solar returns, solar arc directions and etc. etc. - then we have the actual time of the inauguration - another symbolic moment that may shed light on his presidency, then we have a diurnal day chart off his birth time for consideration as well.. are certain symbolic charts more relevant then others?? i don't actually know, but maybe others ask this question as well as me..

regarding the diurnal chart under consideration - the ascendant is at the end and the beginning of the tropical zodiac - more at the end, then the beginning, but it is pretty close... i think having this area highlighted might be reflected in the undue attention and focus of the world on trump and how the usa president is going to unravel or repair all the unsettling dynamics on the world stage at present... it seems like a very turbulent time in the world as i see it, and especially for the usa for a number of reasons...

i take note of the close sun-pluto conjunction, which is indicative of a sort of power, or powerlessness that is imbued in the leader - trump... it is also in a close 45 degree aspect to saturn in the 12th house area which suggests a lot of hidden difficulties that will interfere with the leaders ability to lead in some strong and confident manner.. another meaning of the sun-pluto conjunction could be summarized in this picture below..
who is actually leading?? the idea of an oligarch, where billionaires can buy there seat on gov't and etc. etc. is hard not to consider with the sun-pluto conjunction so prominent...

i suppose it remains to be seen how trumps term as president will go... also if sun rules the 6th house of this chart posted, this would lend strength to ouranos suggestion that trump may not last the whole term, or may suffer from some health issues given the set up of the sun in this chart..

a lot is riding on trumps upcoming presidency... it is coming at at time where it seems to me the usa is falling apart in a number of ways and struggling to maintain it's unipolar position.. i think that time has indeed passed, but the illusion of 'we are the greatest' is hard to let go of... perhaps this speaks to the idea of neptune rising in this chart... the dream and the reality are 2 different positions..

A diurnal answers the question When as it points to a day. Working with a 1 degree orb.
As for the transiting Sun of Trump in his natal 6th, it could be read as
Trump becomes the leader (Diurnal AS at the Aries Point sextile transiting Sun/Pluto and ruling his natal AS) of the civil servants of the country (6th House).

It's only a matter of time before Trump and Musk file for a divorce.
Trump's Saturn in the 1st House of Musk and semi-square the Moon of Musk ruler of his AS.