stargeezer, geogius and others

see william lillys commentary from debs annotated christian astrology which also includes commentary from a couple of other older astrologers..

https://www.skyscript.co.uk/pdf/CA_pages_69_86.pdf

read top of page 19 in this 21 page pdf.. also read the bottom of page 19 to see more notes on the nodes..

the copy and paste feature of this pdf has been disabled, or i would have copied and pasted what was said in it..


----------------- question to georgius

is tradition a guide or a crutch??

In my opinion tradition is the best guidance in astrology we have. One shall not neglect it rashly.

Thanks for the hint to Lilly!

i get the idea of tradition being valuable guidance, but you've sidestepped the heart of my question... can tradition become a crutch if it's followed without question or personal exploration? how do you personally strike a balance between respecting tradition and cultivating independent insights?

A good way to look at the Nodal axis is to check when it crosses the Vernal Points (0 Cardinal / 15 Fix) for it tells us the state of the relationships between the countries in the world.

Back in 2001, the Nodal axis crossed 0 Cancer and it was accompanied by Kronos.
In astrology, Kronos is associated with the Greek god of time and is often linked to themes of authority, structure and discipline. The influence of Kronos can bring a focus on long-term goals, responsibility, and the desire to build something enduring or meaningful.
It's counterpart is the Roman God Saturn. We witnessed Sept 11th and George W. Bush who said
"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."
This statement was part of Bush's call for international support in the fight against terrorism after the attacks, framing the issue as a clear choice between supporting the United States and its allies or siding with those responsible for the attacks. A clear choice, in true nature of Kronos.

Today, it's a different ball game.
As the Nodal axis is crossing the Aries Point, it is accompanied by Neptune and Poseidon (15 Sco), the gods of confusion and dissolutions of unions.
It truly reflects the "connections to the unknown" that we are living with and the anxiety generated by a lack of clear direction. The web giants are spying on us, selling our information, propagating false informations and creating a cloak, a veil on Truth.

I have long said it, the biggest threat to democracy are the social medias.
And migrants (Neptune) are truly the main focus in the world right now.
I find it relevant to mention here that one of the main actor is called Musk which refers to a strong-smelling substance from the gland of the male musk deer, which was used in perfumery for its distinctive scent or other substances with similar strong, fragrant qualities, even synthetic or plant-based substitutes. (Neptune Aries Point).
Add up the conjunction Hades/ Kronos (of criminal governments) which just went over the Sun of U.S.A and you get a better picture of the state of the world.

Ouranos

james_m wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2025 5:13 pm …can tradition become a crutch if it's followed without question or personal exploration? how do you personally strike a balance between respecting tradition and cultivating independent insights?

As I said

Georgius wrote: I think theory is good but observation is better and decisive.

I consider it best to follow the tradition and observe if it works. If you can walk a crutch is hindering, if you cannot it is helpful. So it depends. Walking with a crutch is better than not walking at all. But if you get used to a crutch you might miss the moment when you get able to walk without it.

A good astrologer needs to incorporate the tradition with a modern view.
Why do the Ancients had nothing to say about airplanes?
Because it did not exist. Should we dismiss airplanes from our interpretations?
Why do we need to change wounds of knights jousting in Middle Age tournaments to modern scarification and tattoos? Same Mars influence.
Here is the path (tradition). Now you have to walk (modern).

james_m wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2025 4:06 pm stargeezer, geogius and others

see william lillys commentary from debs annotated christian astrology which also includes commentary from a couple of other older astrologers..

https://www.skyscript.co.uk/pdf/CA_pages_69_86.pdf

read top of page 19 in this 21 page pdf.. also read the bottom of page 19 to see more notes on the nodes..

the copy and paste feature of this pdf has been disabled, or i would have copied and pasted what was said in it..


----------------- question to georgius

is tradition a guide or a crutch??

Thanks for the CA reference on the South Node, james,

I couldn't copy and paste from that PDF you linked either, so I took screenshots and am attaching them below. (Click on those to enlarge.)

To summarize, Lilly says he found the claim that the South Node was beneficial with malefics untrue in practice, although the ancients said it was; and in footnote Al-Biruni says not everyone could accept the judgement of the ancients on this, as it seems "rather far-fetched." That's what I think too.

--stargeezer

thanks stargeezer,

a screen shot was a good idea... there is also a reference you left out on the bottom of page 19 of that 21 page pdf from albumasar which lilly seems to be referencing from footnote 499.. here is a screenshot of that as well..

Ouranos wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2025 6:59 pm A good astrologer needs to incorporate the tradition with a modern view.
Why do the Ancients had nothing to say about airplanes?
Because it did not exist. Should we dismiss airplanes from our interpretations?

That is a common misinterpretation. An airplane is not that much different from another means of transport. So just take that.

Ouranos wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2025 6:59 pm Why do we need to change wounds of knights jousting in Middle Age tournaments to modern scarification and tattoos? Same Mars influence.
Here is the path (tradition). Now you have to walk (modern).

For me there is no need to invent another astrology. Just understand the tradition, study it well and everything will work. Did you realise that horaries predicted the winning of Trump in 4 of 5 published delineations while more of the half of all published predictions were wrong?

That is a common misinterpretation. An airplane is not that much different from another means of transport. So just take that.

Maybe you misunderstood my point. It is the "language" that needs to be modernized, not the techniques.
An insult at the end of your sentence is very modern but we are talking a different language here.

For me there is no need to invent another astrology. Just understand the tradition, study it well and everything will work. Did you realise that horaries predicted the winning of Trump in 4 of 5 published delineations while more of the half of all published predictions were wrong?

Yes, and some of them used ancient techniques. Modern or Ancient is not the concern. Maybe the astrologer?

this word 'tradition' has the potential to be really quite toxic... there are all kinds of traditions.. to lump them all under the heading 'the tradition' does a dis service to them all... obviously astrologers down thru the past had different viewpoints, as has been shown just on this thread!!! one has to figure out how to observe and think for themselves, and no amount of clobbering others over the head with this mantra on 'the tradition' is going to work, especially if one is incapable of thinking for themselves!

I have mentioned before what was the great break in astrology. There is a before and after. This was so heavy that all other differences before this break are not that important.

And I want to add that it is not that easy for me to express myself in English, so I’m out of this discussion. I have said what I wanted to say.