Ouranos wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:28 am In Uranian astrology, Neptune is associated with airplanes, rather than Uranus. Neptune rules over the realm of air, fluidity, and movement, and it represents the atmosphere and all forms of transportation through the air, such as planes.

Conjunct Scheat (Mars nature) in the constellation Pegasus, we have seen a few airplanes incidents this week in Washington and Philadelphia including migrants sent back to their country in military airplanes. Trump making a show with his fascist theory!

Hi Ouranos, there do seem to be a number of airplane centered events; funny how that can happen with accidents, shootings, crashes, etc.
Years ago I remember reading how frustrated Western historians were when they first encountered Chinese history texts; instead of listing events linearly they recorded things that happened around the same with the understanding that events that happen closely in time share similar qualities; doesn't fit Western linear thinking.

Just as the myth of Bellerophon ended in failure when he attempted to fly too high, ancient astrologers may have seen the influence of Pegasus as a warning about the dangers of hubris or overambition, especially if the constellation was poorly aspected in a chart.

lol...is this a polite way of reminding us we can't know everything? We can't, but puzzles can be fun, even if they give us headaches and if there is one thing every chart is, it's a puzzle

21 degrees Virgo is Uranus Neptune , 20 degrees Gemini is Uranus Moon. Mercury at 3 degrees aquarius meens that the people in the plane were looking for a good place and found it.

hi jane

thanks for articulating all that! i suppose everyone balances the various elements of astrology differently to come to their own conclusions.. i can see the association of saturn to the 6th house in lieu of it's rulership over the 6th, but i think due its close proximity to the 7th house cusp, it is given more power to bring about the characteristics of both saturn and the 6th house - 5th house too... so perhaps we have a different emphasis.. i don't know... but i do believe any planet that is angular and close to the angles has more power to act and express the characteristics it is associated with.. i think i put more emphasis on the nature of the planet itself, as opposed to it's house position, but this entails house position due the fact that planets in the angles have power to express themselves, while planets cadent generally don't.. the idea of misfortune, suffering and in general death are very much saturn characteristics in a general sense... that these traits are clearly associated with this event is beyond dispute.... perhaps saturn would be more powerful if it had yet to set in the chart, but for the most part, i still see it as an important influence in the chart...

i guess i get to thinking what are the most important planets in a chart, like any other astrologer and in this chart i come up with the planets near the descendant... as for the midheaven which is considered a more potent angle, i would probably give jupiter more emphasis then mars in this chart, but that is me!

janegca wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 1:02 pm

James...
re: viewing Saturn as angular; I have found that planets in one house closely conjunct the cusp of the next house tend to act in the context of the house they occupy with that action influencing the house whose cusp they conjunct, especially if they occupy the same sign and aspect their dispositor. So here, I see Saturn indicating an event involving the 6th (Saturn in and ruling the 6th), 7th (Saturn conjunct 7th) and 9th (Saturn dispositor in 9th).

I agree that the nodal axis, especially as it occupies angles and critical degrees, emphasizes the importance of the event; it also emphasizes the connections between the three houses as it is posited in the 7th with Venus (ruler of the 9th) and Neptune (co-ruler of the 9th). Saturn draws in the 6th by its position. One signification of the 9th is interstate and international commerce and travel; the 7th's significations include, foreign nations, conflicts, and death (as the setting place); and the 6th, military personnel, injury. Neptune rules aviation and involved conditions (confusion). Venus, young women, Saturn loss. All these elements form components of the event. I don't; however, think these elements, by their nature, are capable of effecting the actual event that occurred which, by its nature, belongs to Mars (violence, accidents).

ed and janes

i am curious about the death by water symbolism you and jane associate with this plane accident... how does this emphasis in water compare to the medevac accident that i have put up a new post on? the reason i ask is the moon is also in the water sign pisces, applying to saturn in pisces... i suppose i am having difficulty making these symbolic connections after the fact and have difficulty using this symbolism in this context.... how do you make it fit for the accident last night, or do you just find other methods to make sense of it all?? thanks..

james_m wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:17 pm but i do believe any planet that is angular and close to the angles has more power to act and express the characteristics it is associated with..

Hi James, if you are thinking of a planet in terms of strength alone, then I agree, a cadent planet closely conjunct an angle is much stronger than a planet in a cadent house. So Saturn here is strong but I think the context it will act in favours 6th house events over 7th house events so for that reason I don't consider it a 7th house planet and I tend not to say "angular" as that also implies its in a good place, which it isn't.

james_m wrote: i guess i get to thinking what are the most important planets in a chart, like any other astrologer and in this chart i come up with the planets near the descendant... as for the midheaven which is considered a more potent angle, i would probably give jupiter more emphasis then mars in this chart, but that is me!

Jupiter is closer to the MC but 9° is too far away for me so I give Mars, who is physically in the 10th, more weight, he's also, I think, strengthened by his dispositor being trine (3°) the MC.

james_m wrote: i am curious about the death by water symbolism you and jane associate with this plane accident... how does this emphasis in water compare to the medevac accident that i have put up a new post on? the reason i ask is the moon is also in the water sign pisces, applying to saturn in pisces... i suppose i am having difficulty making these symbolic connections after the fact and have difficulty using this symbolism in this context.... how do you make it fit for the accident last night, or do you just find other methods to make sense of it all?? thanks..

I think the 'water' comes into play in this chart because Mars (for me) triggers the accident and is in a water sign and the setting Saturn connection reinforces it as Saturn naturally signifies deaths involving water. Taking a quick look at the Medvac chart, to me, it looks like Uranus is the trigger for the accident and he's in an earth sign with his connections to Mars and Saturn leaning towards buildings given that Mars rules the 4th of buildings and homes and Saturn, by nature, rules buildings. Although I could easily be wrong in both cases; I usually try to figure (as best I can) which of each planets and signs significations are more likely given the configuration they're in...i.e. try to find which significations they have in common according to the connections between planets, signs and houses.

Hey All: I just wanted to take a moment to say how much I appreciate everyone's input—it's been truly insightful and given me a lot to think about. It’s fascinating to see the different ways we each approach the same astrological themes, interpreting them through our own unique lenses. Even though we're working with the same foundational principles, the variations in perspective, technique, and emphasis make for a rich and dynamic discussion.

One of the things I find most engaging is seeing how different astrologers synthesize chart elements and what factors they prioritize in their interpretations. It really highlights the depth and fluidity of astrology, where no two readings are ever quite the same. Whether it's a traditional approach, a psychological lens, or a more intuitive style, each method brings something valuable to the table.

Jane: Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and astrological reasoning on Mars in the tropical Potomac tragedy chart! I really enjoyed your approach—it was both clear and thought-provoking. If time allows, I’d love to circle back and comment on some of your replies to dive even deeper into the discussion. Appreciate your insights!

janegca wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 5:31 pm I don't consider it a 7th house planet and I tend not to say "angular" as that also implies its in a good place, which it isn't.

thanks for your response jane on all of the questions i was asking.. i have to appreciate and reinforce aj's commentary from this morning.. seeing how others interpret the astrology is helpful.. i might not share in the same viewpoint and interpretation of this chart, but i appreciate others come to the conclusions they do in their own way and be respectful of that.. i guess the idea and interpretation of the houses is where i really differ with your approach...

being in an angle implies it has the power to act.. that's all.. in the case of saturn, this may or may not be a ''good'' thing.. the fact it rules the 6th and is in an angle is not thought of as a ''good'' thing in my mind, even if it is in the 7th house - which is one i see it.

cheers james

Hi AJ, James ... yes, it is good to know about other approaches; they force me to rethink my own; just wish it wasn't so difficult to articulate, usually I'm just talking to myself and it's oh so clear ... until I try to write it out ... lol

hi jane

i think you and aj are both well spoken when it comes to the written word and sharing your ideas...i on the other hand refuse to capitalize and follow proper english language procedures which i am sure is a real turn off to some.. i suppose aside from wanting to poke the english language purists in the eye, i have a habit of doing the same on other levels too! regardless, i appreciate the camaraderie and exchange of astro ideas here at skyscript and think you do very well!

Hi james ... thank you. Your text is easy enough to follow; online, the only thing that drives me nuts is ALL CAPS ... don't like being yelled at

These disasters are directly linked to the 2024 total solar eclipse degree which is still very active today (19 aries tropical)
Mars retrograde applies towards the degree & a whole slew of disasters have erupted.
Mars is in the constellation of the twins, suggesting a 'multitude of accidents'

From this event chart, clearly part of accident is 17 Taurus (23 Aries sidereal), conjunct the 9th cusp & square the Moon in the event chart.
T Mars is in aspect by sextile.
Fortune is parallel antiscion to the 8th cusp, conjunct the Eclipse degree.

Secret Enemies is 04.46 Aries, 23.14 Virgo is the antiscia (conj the ASC, opposite Venus)
Nemesis is 24 Pisces, conjunct Venus (06 Libra is the antiscia)
Part of Plane Crashes is 05.50 Capricorn (24.10 Sagittarius)

They're all in close aspect.

Take a look at the Philadelphia plane crash which took place shortly after & you will see that Mars & the eclipse degree were also a trigger in the event.

I think some circumstances around the crash may seem a bit unclear (Neptune?). Operational protocols, airspace management, and the deactivation of essential safety systems are listed as some potential factors leading to the crash.

Oddly, there was another plane crash in 1982 on the Potomac River & it occurred following a Total Lunar Eclipse at 19 Cancer, square the current eclipse degree & conjunct the transit Mars retrograde which was a trigger in the current event.

Perhaps for this particular event chart, the Mars retrograde signifies the previous crash on the river in a sense?

Good point Althuraya,
A good reminder about Eclipses.

Ouranos

nice post Althuraya

i am sure you are right in that solar eclipses play out over the course of time, before and after the fact... it reminds me of part of the reason why i believe the nodal axis is so important in astrology and how an understanding of its role and connection with events is central... it becomes obvious when considering eclipse data, how important the nodal axis is! welcome to skyscript.. i haven't seen you here before..