i can't remember where i read this recently, but i found an article that supports it..

https://alfin2100.blogspot.com/2013/01/ ... years.html

whether this connects to pluto's cycle which is approx 250 years or not, i am not sure...

usa 1776 - 2026??

Hi James,

Interesting. Although it seems to be cherry picking between Empires and dynasties where it suits. Some of the dates seem questionable.

I wouldn't agree the Roman empire ended in 180AD. However, it did go through a major crisis starting in 234 ad leading to a complete reorganization which sounds quite Plutonian.

I thought I could bat away this theory with examples from the China but it appears that most dynasties did not exceed this timescale.

There are probably loads of the holes in this idea but it is interesting impetus to follow up other outer planet cycle research in terms of the fate of dynasties and states. And intriguingly we have the USA chart (1776) about to have its Neptune opposition Neptune in 2021, its Pluto return in 2022 and Uranus return in 2027.

Mark

thanks mark,

it is an interesting theory... like everything astrological - it isn't perfect! something to ponder...

I don't think the United States will collapse in 2026. Democracies aren't like autocratic kingdoms. With every change of government, it's like reshuffling the deck of policies.

The United States is a unique place. Laws and customs vary from state to state. No wonder Americans often identify themselves by their state rather than just saying they're from the United States! The central authority only governs a small area like the District of Columbia（It doesn't belong to any state in the United States.）

What the United States is more concerned about is its position of dominance in the world. External crises often serve to foster internal unity.

James, the main content of the article you provided seems to be against immigration?

The article seems to suggest that immigration is the main cause of the empire's collapse.

This brings us back to the fundamental logic of uniting people. What can unite hearts and minds?

This is also why I'm concerned about the abolition of the British monarchy. In 2025, Saturn will conjoin Neptune in Aries, which seems to affect the current British monarchy. I don't know what will happen to the British monarchy in 2025. Saturn conjoining Neptune represents illness. Both Charles III and Kate, the Duchess of Cambridge, have fallen ill in 2024.

What will be the future of the Commonwealth? I don't think Scotland will become independent.

hi wei

that is not what i am thinking either... i don't think empires come and go all at once, so putting it on the clock and trying to time it to a particular year is a fairly insane idea! that is not what i am advocating here... but, i think the seeds to the usa's demise are fairly clear for all to see, if one is to look... yes - 2026 is technically the 250th year from 1776, but it is much more general what i am getting at here...

i am not sure people in the usa identify more with the state then the country... i am not sure about canada verses the provinces either for that matter - and i live in canada...

i wasn't focused on any issue of immigration that might have been suggested in the link i shared.. it was purely for the graph showing different empires duration...

yes - what can unite people as opposed to dividing people?? that is a great focused question that i share with you! here is your quote - "This brings us back to the fundamental logic of uniting people. What can unite hearts and minds?" transcending our differences and recognizing what we share in common with others is what i try to do.. you know - act individually and believe it has a ripple effect like a peddle dropped on a still pond...

maybe empires don't die a sudden death like one would with a heart attack.. instead they just fade away into irrelevance over the course of time...

That blog post was a very self-contradictory read (I didn't read the actual essay); empires fall because of decadence caused partly by turning into a Welfare State and due to the 'influx' of foreigners but also because of selfishness, a loss of a sense of duty, for love of money and then he goes on to say it "Their falls are diverse, because they are largely the result of external causes. ". :roll-eyes:

Many in the past have fallen because they've used up all their own resources and had to go outside their territories to get more; leading to wars, slavery, and power mongering among other things. And the real problem with all this is that when you start treating other human beings not as human beings but as 'resources' you yourself become less human, society falls apart and so goes the empire. In the past people would look to move elsewhere but today there is no where to go; we've wreaked havoc on the planet and our glorious leaders are squabbling over what's left while our wealthy have grand schemes to escape to other planets or massive underground bunkers in remote areas; geniuses that they are.

i agree with your conclusions jane... i call it late stage capitalism... lets hope i am wrong and things can be moved in a more positive direction with regard to what i continue to believe is a falling empire - usa... can't we all get along?? apparently not according to some!

i wanted to resurrect this thread, because i believe it is relevant to what is taking place in the usa today under the new leadership of trump..

as it happens the pluto return in sidereal was only this past december 2024.. i believe the changes which include greater transparency and a willingness to consider other approaches on the international stage, has really broken out in the past month of trumps presidency.. i realize it is a turbulent time full of noise, but also a number of encouraging signs..

so what is the astrology aside from the suggestion that the pluto cycle is at play here with regard to the usa?? i believe the developing patterns as suggested by andre barbault have to factor into all this.. his astrological projection of 2026 being an important change, high or low point in his cycle analysis would have to be involved in all this... a simple consideration of neptunes entrance into aries, and a developing conjunction of a saturn-neptune conjunction in early aries 9 or pisces for the siderealists), in combination with the change of tropical signs with pluto and uranus (here shortly), all lining up in a friendly sort of manner suggest the possibility of peace and harmony being again possible..

i haven't looked at the aries ingress chart for the usa.. might be fun to do so, but i do believe the trump admin has shaken up a lot of complacency and that this is a good thing.

james_m wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2025 8:07 pm
i haven't looked at the aries ingress chart for the usa.. might be fun to do so, but i do believe the trump admin has shaken up a lot of complacency and that this is a good thing.

https://www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=12953

but that is not an aries ingress chart for the usa for 2025, but something different...

here the usa 2025 tropical zodiac aries ingress is below.. i get this off 4 01 30 seconds march 20th to washington d.c.
fixed rising is said to hold for the year...

we have 2 outer planets 4 and 5 degrees away from the i.c. and ascendant - uranus and pluto.. then we have the moon in the 10th a bit less then 8 degrees from the midheaven... if you go along with outer planet use and meaning - this indicates continued turbulence in usa... moon is prominent and rules the 6th house of the chart, not an especially good house lord to have near an angle as it drags in the symbolism associated with the 6th house for good and bad.. at the same time moon is applying approx 8 degrees to jupiter in the 4th house area - 5th whole sign/house... and finally moon is about 1 degree past the 135 aspect from mars, mars also is in the 6th house..

a bit deeper into the chart, saturn is exactly 45 from the ascendant degree and in the 2nd - another possible indication of financial concern, which i mentioned for the uk aries ingress chart as well.. i continue to contemplate another shoe dropping in the financial world, although it is pure speculation on my part... this however is the astro to back it up... saturn is the ruler of 1 and 12 houses..

one other observation is how the chart is mostly lower hemisphere oriented which suggests a withdrawal off the world stage, or an attempt to make the focus more on the usa and less on world leadership dominance which seems to be part of trumps agenda here as well...
this is a biwheel with donald trumps chart on the outer wheel.. one again sees how the position of uranus ( conjunct trumps midheaven) and pluto ( trumps pluto conjunct 2025 aries ingress descendant) are being highlighted in trumps natal chart, reflecting their angular position in the 2025 aries ingress chart.. trumps mercury/neptune square connects with the retro mercury in the 2025 aries ingress chart as well... not sure what i think this means, other then a question over clarity of thought and action being open to question here..

It is neptune into aries

james_m wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2025 8:07 pm i wanted to resurrect this thread, because i believe it is relevant to what is taking place in the usa today under the new leadership of trump..

as it happens the pluto return in sidereal was only this past december 2024.. i believe the changes which include greater transparency and a willingness to consider other approaches on the international stage, has really broken out in the past month of trumps presidency.. i realize it is a turbulent time full of noise, but also a number of encouraging signs..

so what is the astrology aside from the suggestion that the pluto cycle is at play here with regard to the usa?? i believe the developing patterns as suggested by andre barbault have to factor into all this.. his astrological projection of 2026 being an important change, high or low point in his cycle analysis would have to be involved in all this... a simple consideration of neptunes entrance into aries, and a developing conjunction of a saturn-neptune conjunction in early aries 9 or pisces for the siderealists), in combination with the change of tropical signs with pluto and uranus (here shortly), all lining up in a friendly sort of manner suggest the possibility of peace and harmony being again possible..

i haven't looked at the aries ingress chart for the usa.. might be fun to do so, but i do believe the trump admin has shaken up a lot of complacency and that this is a good thing.

James: I need to familiarize myself more with Barbault's writings; I never really studied them.

Here are some additional thoughts building on what you presented.

You bring up some compelling points regarding the Pluto return and the broader astrological cycles influencing the U.S. at this moment. Pluto’s sidereal return in December 2024 aligns with a period of profound transformation, reinforcing the themes of upheaval and restructuring.

Beyond Pluto, you are correct; the upcoming Saturn-Neptune conjunction at 06 Pisces (00 Aries in tropical) in February 2026 is particularly significant, now just a year away. Historically, these conjunctions have marked ideological and structural realignments—whether through the dissolution of old frameworks or the emergence of new paradigms. The last conjunction, in 1989, coincided with the fall of the Berlin Wall and sweeping geopolitical changes that effectively reshaped the modern world. Given that precedent, the 2025–26 period could prove equally pivotal.

To align more closely with your discussion looking through the tropical lens, Neptune’s entrance into Aries suggests a collective shift in vision, moving away from the diffuse, idealistic Piscean themes of the past decade and toward a more action-oriented, pioneering approach. This transition could have direct implications for global diplomacy and leadership styles, reinforcing the broader changes already taking shape.

Uranus’ movement into tropical Gemini in 2025 is another key factor you mentioned. The last time Uranus was in this sign (1941–49), the world experienced significant technological and ideological shifts, alongside the restructuring of global alliances. Given that Uranus will form 3rd and 6th harmonic aspects with Pluto and Neptune, we may witness radical transformations in communication, trade, and governance models.

Historically, Uranus’ presence in Gemini has coincided with periods of dramatic change. In 1860, as Uranus entered Gemini, deep divisions in the U.S. Congress foreshadowed the onset of the Civil War less than a year later. Similarly, its transit through Gemini from 1774 to 1782 marked the years of the American Revolutionary War. These historical parallels suggest that the upcoming Uranian cycle could once again coincide with a period of heightened ideological shifts and restructuring on both national and global scales.