https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Trum ... yy_meeting

2 videos of the 49 minute exchange below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3WD9CUNgEE&t=14s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_YtXWVfkJE

this particular meeting yesterday and all the fallout from it, is either a passing hollywood type event, or it is a significant turning point in the usa's role as it relates to ukraine.. i definitely think it is the later..it looks like the good ship lollipop is trying to navigate itself into turning in a completely different direction.. i realize it is complicated and i will avoid discussing it politically as best i can! however, i am drawn to what exactly is the astrology of it all.. one of my first thoughts was to consider the synastry between trump and zelenskys chart, followed by the synastry between vance and zelenskys chart... i am happy to consider this in sidereal or tropical zodiac, so if anyone wants to engage in this thread in either medium - feel free!

first off, i am using the adb chart of 2pm for zelensky which is rated A... there has been some astro exploration at a rectified chart for him, but in the absence of anything concrete, i will use this time for the synastry... the charts for trump and vance are also listed on adb and these are the charts i am using for them as well..

here is the synastry between trump and zelensky which trumps chart on the inside and zelenskys on the outside in tropical zodiac..
the obvious connection between the 2 charts is trumps ascendant/mars conjunction is being overlapped with zelenskys saturn position.. this is not a favourable combo as an astrologer might imagine.. in fact, it is a very challenging one, especially for the saturn individual - zelensky in this case.. there are probably other factors that offset this some.. perhaps zelenskys jupiter in proximity to trumps sun-moon opposition pattern might help, but perhaps not so much as it also entangles trumps nodal axis.. zelenskys own nodal axis and mercury, wrap around trumps neptune which is again not helpful give the square.. nature of it all.. it is also widely part of zelenskys mercury-pluto square which happens to connect directly with trumps jupiter as well.. some of this set up reminds me of the pictures that zelensky was presenting to trump, along with the ongoing propaganda blitz where everything bad is on putin and none of it is on zelensky or nato... i have tried to address this mercury-pluto square in zelenskys chart before by saying it is a mercury that is prone to manipulation of information in an intentional manner... it seems this didn't work in this particular instance.

maybe there are other connections i am missing in the synastry between these 2 charts.. if the 2pm chart is close for zelensky, the ascendant axis is directly on trumps nodal axis which is has the important concentration of trumps sun-uranus opp moon configuration with nodes.. this implies to me an ease of rapport between the 2 men on a simple level.. however the disruptive uranus energy seems challenging to make for ease of relationship, especially with zelenskys saturn on trumps mars -ascendant...

next is the synastry between vp vance, who played an important role in this exchange, and zelensky.. this is shown below in tropical zodiac with vance chart on the inside and zelensky on the outside..
again because the ascendants of both vance and trump are very similar, we see zelenskys saturn landing on vance ascendant/venus conjunction - not an immediately favourable set up... zelenskys moon in leo is in the area of vances sun in leo, but would be a relationship where vance would dominate as i understand sun-moon synastry.. zelenskys saturn is in a square aspect to vances mars position ( vance has the mars square ascendant) which is also not helpful, but more cause for frustration with zelensky.. zelenskys mars square vance pluto is not helpful either - more confrontational on the part of zelensky, and triggering the wrong note in vance as i see it.. zelenskys venus/sun conjunction in opposition to vances sun might be seen as more helpful here but offset some given zelenskys own sun-opp mars which is a set up more given over to confrontation then conciliation.. there may be more going on that i am missing.. feel free to add to this!!

i may include a chart for the event itself as that would be worth consideration here too.. if someone wants to do that great! otherwise, i will get round to it..

James: Based on your post about the synastry between these characters, I decided to examine their composite charts. I appreciate composite charts because they quickly reveal any major ‘deal breakers’ in a relationship. I generally use very tight orbs, around 2-3 degrees. I'm sure it will overlap your synastry findings.
Many of the significant dynamics of the meeting between them you have already covered, so I won't repeat them here.

I’m highlighting just the most challenging configurations—ones I’ve found to be largely unresolvable over the years. The charts are calculated with the birth data you provided, but in the sidereal zodiac, which really doesn't impact the composite aspects.

The first chart is a composite of Donald Trump and Zelensky, using a derived ascendant for Washington, DC.
Mars and Saturn are tightly conjunct and caught in the RKA. This indicates a relationship dynamic that swings between extremes—hot and cold—often marked by abrupt shifts. The presence of Ketu (SN) in the 7th house further reinforces this theme, suggesting sudden breaks or unpredictable turns in their interactions. Here is the composite chart of JD Vance and Zelensky, again using a derived ascendant for Washington, DC.
Pluto squaring the ascendant is a significant challenge. This aspect suggests ongoing power struggles whenever they interact, with both individuals vying for dominance. Their relationship is likely to be marked by personal contentions and an underlying battle for control.

thanks aj.. the connections reflect some of the data found in the synastry, but additional astro as well.. i haven't looked at composite charts for some time and consider then very useful as well - especially with transits to important points in the composite chart..

i would be curious of what the derived ascendant/ midheaven axis are without the focus on washington? of course washington was where the meeting took place.. thanks for doing this!

james_m wrote: Sun Mar 02, 2025 4:34 pm i would be curious of what the derived ascendant/ midheaven axis are without the focus on washington? of course washington was where the meeting took place.. thanks for doing this!

Here is a standard composite of Trump and Zelensky in tropical format from Equal House Cusps. I used tropical for my convenience because the output from whole signs in sidereal is weird from at least my Solar Fire, as it puts 15 degrees in equal house on each cusp. It's very odd to look at if you are not used to it.
If anyone has a workaround for this anomaly, please let me know. I have tried many different things to no avail. Just another SF bug, I think.

No close aspects to the composite ascendant or MC within 3 degrees.

i may include a chart for the event itself as that would be worth consideration here too.. if someone wants to do that great! otherwise, i will get round to it..

Hi James
Here's a copy of a Facebook post with some commentary which I posted Saturday morning. I have seen astrologers state that the meeting occured at 11 am, but that was the pre-scheduled time which got delayed. I noted the time that Trump and Zelkensky met and shook hands, which offers a strong symbolic commencment point for what their meeting held - video clip of that meeting.

Zelensky “pulled up to the West Wing doors at exactly 11:22 am, where he was greeted by Trump” ( MSN).

That moment had 18 Gemini on the ascendant, aligned with Trump’s luminaries and nodes, and exact on his natal Uranus. (Caution and civility were thrown to the wind from the onset, as Trump shook hands with a sarcastic jibe about Zelensky not dressing for the occasion.)

The MC degree of that meeting squares Trump’s MC at 24 Taurus – this is currently lit by the transit of Uranus and acting as the midpoint of a pivotal alignment forming between Mars and Saturn. Their applying trine perfects on 4 April (both planets at 24.58), and this configuration dominates the upcoming ingress and the solar eclipse (29 March), so plays out as a key event for global politics this year.

Trump and Zelensky bring the themes of Mars and Saturn together natally, with Trump’s Mars and Zelensky’s Saturn both joined to the fixed star Regulus. Their Mars-Saturn union landed on the IC for the time of the meeting, rooting it in anger and frustration, which ignited and got brought to the surface by Trump’s Uranus.

This is already being recognised as a meeting that will change the course of world politics. Over the next few days, as the Sun moves into its opposition with Trump’s natal Pluto, expect him to get more entrenched in his own position. After that, we can only hope the applying trine of Mars and Saturn, as it brings difficult issues very vividly into focus, will help to expose some routes for resolution. However, any union of these two harsh planets never opens up an easy path, and Saturn is central to the shadows of both the upcoming lunar and solar eclipses. (It also dominates the midheaven of the ingress chart for Ukraine, Russia, and also Israel and Palestine this year, so characterises their political scenes).

All of these and other relevant national, natal, ingress and eclipse charts are easy to access and view at https://www.skyscript.co.uk/mm.html

Re Vance:

Vance's AA-rated chart has 27 Leo rising, right between Trump's Mars and Zelensky's Saturn. Everything was already difficult, but his input brought the punch in the guts - first laxing large on the importance of diplomacy, then leaving all traces of diplomacy behind with direct criticisms on the world stage that turned the bad situation into the shit show.

deb

thanks for your feedback and time for the handshake 1122am washington dc..

i too think this meeting is a pivotal one from the point of view it is like a 1-2 punch from the new trump admin.. punch 1 was the munich security conference.. punch 2 is this meeting.. both directly challenge the status quo and specifically the relationship and roles that the usa and europe, or more broadly the usa and nato play on the world stage.. this is specific to this nato-russia conflict, which is how i have defined it, where ukraine is the hockey puck in this hockey match between nato and russia.. i contend this is a conflict between russia and nato, not russia and ukraine.. this is a very important distinction i make from the narrative being told... zelensky has supported this particular description in the hope that it would benefit him and ukraine.. it is benefiting neither and neither is it benefiting the world more broadly.. the trump administration wants to change this. usa as the leader of nato, has been largely responsible for all this build up towards what we see today as well, while the other nato leaders must accept responsibility for giving the usa the lead role in trying to expand nato at the cost of russian, european and the worlds security needs... a security balance is needed and not one where one countries security comes at the cost of anothers..

here is my astro on zelensky off this meeting which i will make the focus of here... there is a close saturn transit 45 his sun/venus... how does a person with a natal mars opp to sun do diplomacy?? i'd be curious of others thoughts on this particular set up. thanks.. i think this transit of saturn to his natal sun/venus is important here.. if the 2pm chart for zelensky is close, 20 gemini tropical zodiac rising is being squared exactly by saturn at 20 pisces.. zelenskys public appearance here and elsewhere with military type dress is being used for constant reinforcement of what exactly?? a particular narrative needs to be constantly emphasized? his 2nd in command yermak - did indeed wear a suit for this occasion although he generally doesn't at these important political meetings either.. why is that? how does this fit with the transit of saturn and working with accepted norms in international relations or with appearances an idea directly associated with the ascendant? the 1122am rising degree of 18 gemini is applying directly to the transiting moon at 19 pisces, and applying to transit saturn at 20 pisces as well - all hitting his 2pm natal ascendant directly, and very close to the 18 gemini degree rising on the ascendant.. this transiting moon/saturn is also 45 to his sun/venus conjunction and 90 his own natal ascendant..

the uranus at 23 taurus 38 is exactly square z's moon-saturn midpoint... this is an unsettling hit on a persons sense of personal security and perhaps indirectly the national security as seen by zelensky here too.. this topic was under discussion at this meeting in zelenskys ongoing demands for ''security guarantees''. seeing as a close applying moon-to saturn transit is also taking place at the time of this meeting, this seems especially relevant to me astrologically, both from the point of view of the event chart and from the transit of uranus to zelenskys own moon-saturn midpoint...

going back to the long transit of pluto to zelenskys natal sun.. is he using martial law to prevent an election from happening because he knows he would lose it if an election was to happen here?? he is approaching 1 year past his 5 year mandate.. is he using this war to avoid letting an election happen?. it would certainly demonstrate a desire to hang onto power at all costs, which is a very sun-pluto type expression in it's lower form.. but that is just a small part of pluto energy at work in zelenskys chart... a more important issue for me is how he expresses the mercury-pluto square in his chart outwardly.. he used this meeting in front of the usa media to take it as an opportunity to push his particular viewpoint/propaganda as i see it.. i have maintained all along his natal mercury-pluto square aspect plays fast and loose with details, giving some details while omitting important other details to push a particular narrative - specifically russia started the war in feb 2022.. there is an intentional avoidance of the history that led up to this moment, as that would cast a very different light on this ''war of aggression'' from russia starting in feb 2022 storyline..... this square aspect was being transited by mars cancer leading up to this important meeting..

the transit of pluto is square the midpoints of this important sun/venus in opposition to mars in his natal chart.. i honestly think zelenskys time as leader of ukraine is coming to an end shortly... perhaps i am emphasizing the role of pluto too much in all of this.. that would be a fair criticism of my commentary here..

i think the idea and expression of diplomacy is extremely important here... no country in nato, or it's leader usa has wanted to engage with russia or speak directly with russia, but instead has worked hard to ostracize russia from the world community... although their was a peace agreement that was attempted in istanbul in april 2022, that was quickly scotched with boris johnsons quick visit to kiev telling zelensky to not accept the peace agreement.. this speaks to the lack of diplomacy and communication existent on the international stage via the usa, europe and nato allies role in refusing to discuss anything with russia... this school kid mentality "russia bad - never talk to them and isolate them from the rest of the world community" is just that - the behaviour of a juvenile school kid... has it worked? no... does trump want to try a different approach here? yes.. is that a good thing?? yes!!!


here is the chart for the departure of zelensky and the ukrainian team from the white house, said to be at 1342 on feb 28th.. perhaps something can also be gleamed for the end chart for this event as well..

That leaving chart - so radical. I want to go 'ouch' when I think of the anger embedded in that moment
Very interesting to read your take on how the charts relate to Zelensky. For the endpoint, I can't comment - it is hard for me to see how that is coming from astrology. What my simple Taurean brain has come to understand after decades of consideration is only that politics has many shades to it. Everyone with a political stance is convinced that their way is the best way. So when I look at the charts, I try to detach from what is right or wrong as I understand it, to focus on issues such as power of motivation and ease and interruption of energy flow, etc. (Of course, I'm aware that bits of me seep out at the edges) This is certainly a hard issue that is flaring up the charts of many world leaders. I wonder what early June will bring, when Mars squares Uranus by transit as conjoins Trump's Mars, Zelensky's Saturn and Putin's Pluto?

thanks deb

a friend pointed out how the mars transit at 17 cancer is 150 zelenskys natal neptune at 17 sag... i think this transit added a layer of confusion with zelensky going into this meeting.

thomas fazi made a statement on the trump-zelensky meeting that really resonated with me - "... both sides are, in a sense, trapped within their own false narratives about the war. As a result, both sides are unable to engage in an honest, nuanced conversation about the root causes and potential solutions. This self-imposed blindness only deepens the crisis. Indeed, acknowledging the truth about the conflict is not only a matter of historical accuracy but also a crucial issue for the “peace process”. https://www.thomasfazi.com/p/the-pro-wa ... on-for-now

good question on the transit of uranus to trump, zelensky and putins chart.... i still believe europe plays a pivotal role in all of this... however, i don't know who or what chart is the best one to put europe into the frame here..

Hi

I did look at the natal charts together, and I too was struck by the Mars/Saturn exchange. That does im a fairly basic antagonism between the two men. And pulling in Vance's Venus and Ascendant too! A less suspicious set of bedfellies could scarcely be be found. The only thing I would question is usually, Saturn is the one that holds the authority, but possibly here, the real card Zelensky has is that he is in the right. Even the fact that his dress code was not out of place is so, as I have read that war leaders van and do dress in military style, as did Churchill. And then the meeting was never held on good faith, though it does seem that Trump got genuinely angry, his complexion went a few deeper shades than orange.

What would most people here think of the links between Zelensky's Jupiter to Trump's Sun, and possibly more problematic Uranus? Is there still any chance a bridge could be found that will allow all the players to reach an agreement that allows the main players to keep face, and avoid future losses? Alas now, without i telluvence, Putin will be able to keep pummrlling Ukraine....

hi there

what does the word ''telluvence'' mean?? thanks..

Sorry, missed that one: typo. I meant 'intelligence'.

thanks nexus

i think the idea of saturn having some authority might be true in an ideal set up.. zelenskys saturn is in leo in the tropical zodiac... his natal moon is also in leo widely applying to this same saturn in an 11 degree orb.. the moon is in a close 120 to his natal neptune... he was said to be an 'actor' and specifically a 'comedian' prior to getting involved in politics.. saturn rules the 8th and 9th houses of his chart.. i am not so sure about any 'authority' this zelensky has here so much as the authority that has been given him by the western media, and many western gov't officials.. i have maintained all along this is a conflict between nato and russia.. ukraine is the hockey puck in a match between these 2 powers..

zelensky came into power on the shirt tail of kolomoisky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihor_Kolomoyskyi not only did he own the television station where zelensky gained his popularity, but he was also pivotal in helping bring zelensky to power... zelensky also ran on a platform of making peace with russia... he might be a good actor - that is questionable.. but the necessity for the khaki outfits 24/7 goes with the role playing here.. zelensky is an empty vessel playing a role on the stage for all the wrong reasons...that is how i personally see it.. perhaps this is in keeping with a saturn in leo.. he is a hollywood production set up by those who are really in power, to continue on with this charade..

generally i would agree with you on the nature of the mars verses the saturn person, but it would have to include more astrological considerations... no matter who the 2 people might be, bringing mars and saturn together is not a recipe for happiness, unless it is offset by other astro factors.. in this case i think trumps mars has a lot of strength and zelenskys saturn is not as 'authoritative' as might be the case of someone who has a strong saturn functioning from a position of strength.. zelenskys mars is not that far off a conjunction with trumps saturn as well - again, this is more challenging.. i suspect a mars-saturn conjunction might be seen in the composite chart for these 2 people..

as for the zelenskys jupiter at trumps sun - that would help some perhaps.. then there is trumps jupiter on zelenskys pluto, with z's pluto in square to mercury... i think zelensky was hoping that trump would go along with the propaganda dispatch, but clearly trump had a bigger vision - probably connected to his out sized ego, of wanting to be seen as the man of peace, bringing peace and a ceasefire to all this... there are a lot of ways to look at all this and while i think astrology does help to clarify some of it, i don't think it addresses the bigger issues at play here, both on a personal and on an international level.. and as we see only a few short weeks later, trump is talking a completely different line at this moment..

i think zelensky hanging onto power, close to a year past his 5 year mandate is also captured in this saturn in leo - authority figure that you reference... it is not a healthy set up, no matter how the msm or someone wants to rationalize it.. this is all as i see it..

nexus7 wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 9:44 am Hi

The only thing I would question is usually, Saturn is the one that holds the authority, but possibly here, the real card Zelensky has is that he is in the right. Even the fact that his dress code was not out of place is so, as I have read that war leaders van and do dress in military style, as did Churchill. And then the meeting was never held on good faith, though it does seem that Trump got genuinely angry, his complexion went a few deeper shades than orange.

What would most people here think of the links between Zelensky's Jupiter to Trump's Sun, and possibly more problematic Uranus? Is there still any chance a bridge could be found that will allow all the players to reach an agreement that allows the main players to keep face, and avoid future losses? Alas now, without i telluvence, Putin will be able to keep pummrlling Ukraine....

news from today.. he is in the ''final act''.. that is a showbiz term.. financial times has him as person of the year in late february 2025 and now this..

https://www.21cir.com/financial-times-z ... -held-now/