thanks aj... i really ought to have read the subject field closely - ''beyond the seasonal metaphor''.... good luck with that is all i can say at this point!!

Hi James -

it is very much a northern hemisphere phenom as described in the cycle of outer growth, followed by fruition, and a slow decay, but to the start point.. it is the reverse in the southern hemisphere.

This is the point that concerns me. Some have advocated that the zodiac be reversed in the southern hemisphere, so Libra becomes Aries at southern latitudes, etc. But the approach doesn't seem to have many adherents and I think it's probably quite problematic as a solution as well.

I understand it's probably fool's errand (like everything in astrology?), but I think this issue is something worth reflecting on. The investigation might not turn anything new up, but there might be new insights to be gleaned along the way.

It may be that there is some privileged status that needs to be accorded the northern hemisphere, but it doesn't seem obvious to me why this should be.

Thanks as ever. Ed

hi ed

thanks for sharing more of your thoughts on this.. would it be okay to explore this idea of the seasonal connection to the tropical zodiac on this thread with you and others?? i only know one person in more close contact - a sun in cancer - who has been married to a close friend for over 40 years) to base any of my observations on them and ironically it is via her living here in b.c. for over half her life... based on how much she has accomplished, and she has accomplished a lot in a community oriented way - i think of her more like a capricorn sun then a cancer sun! but my statistical study is limited to 1 person only, lol... let us know what you think as aj may have more to say on this topic as well, which would be interesting to read on, as might you.. thanks - james

Hi James - I think this discussion is more of a philosophical one, looking at first principles. There might a number of astrological reasons why your friend has achieved so much in this area of community work beyond the Sun sign placement. Let's keep it broad at the moment at least.

Thanks. Ed

I must admit that I am not deeply immersed in reading Greek philosophers in their original language (despite my nickname! ). However, over the past few years, I’ve spent some time reflecting on the different systems of the zodiac - Sidereal, Tropical, Constellational and Draconic, with the first two being considered "traditional" - and the possible reasoning for them.

I believe that the key to understanding the essence of astrology lies in the duality of Light vs. Darkness, manifesting most clearly in the day/night cycle with the two luminaries Sun and the Moon. This goes back to the very creation of the universe, metaphorically, at the beginning of Genesis. The Tropical zodiac can best be understood through the changing patterns of daylight and darkness, which result from the Sun’s varying declination - its angular distance from the celestial equator - throughout the year, depending on the hemisphere you happen to be located in.

Astrological "seasons" (I would keep the term as I don't see a good alternative) are based on the length of daylight, rather than on temperature or precipitation measurements. While meteorological factors may correlate with the amount or intensity of sunlight (for instance, the evaporation of saltwater in the oceans when the hot subsolar point passes over them, causing the water cycle of rain), these phenomena are secondary effects, not "primordial", as previously mentioned by others.

Astrological spring always begins around March 21st in the northern hemisphere, marking the point at which daytime exceeds nighttime and still continues to increase up until the summer solstice. This holds true regardless of whether one (immediately) observes a shift in nature’s energy or not. The onset of astrological spring occurs uniformly across the northern hemisphere... whether in Singapore, Los Angeles, or Reykjavik, irrespective of latitude or local climate.

ed -

thanks! of course the example is based on this simplistic idea of sun signs - of that i am guilty... regardless the issue of the tropical zodiac with reference to north or south hemisphere has not been addressed by anyone to my knowledge..

Astrophilus

good commentary.. thanks... how do you address the reverse situation in the southern hemisphere??

@james_m

The two hemispheres constitute yet another manifestation of duality within our world. In the context of the Tropical zodiac, I believe the distinction between north or south of the equator is just as important as above or below the horizon.

Are you located on the same side of the equator as the Sun, or on the opposite side? Are you situated in the brighter half of the globe or in the darker half? It's also worth noting that at the poles, which symbolically represent their entire hemisphere (by being placed at the center), there is only one prolonged day and one prolonged night each year.

That said, this discussion about North vs. South might perhaps better be continued in the thread titled "Tropical Zodiac and the Southern Hemisphere", which astralwanderer had kindly shared earlier.

thanks Astrophilus!

i don't know if i saw that thread you are mentioning, but will see if i can find it.. can you tell me the title of the thread or do you know how to link to it? i just looked quickly and don't see anything... thanks and cheers james

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far. I'm out of circulation for a few weeks so I won't be able to progress the discussion. However I will pick this up when I return to base!

Ed

james_m wrote: Wed Mar 19, 2025 4:06 pm thanks Astrophilus!

i don't know if i saw that thread you are mentioning, but will see if i can find it.. can you tell me the title of the thread or do you know how to link to it? i just looked quickly and don't see anything... thanks and cheers james

I meant the first link shared in #7, an old but interesting thread from 2014/15:
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8134

Last post was written by none other than yourself, so I'm a bit surprised you don't remember it.

Whatever, there's nothing new under the sun, so might as well (re-)read the thread. Wish you all a happy equinox!

thanks astrophilus

i have been known to forget something i said 5 minutes ago, let alone 10 years, ago, but thanks for pointing that all out.. i will have a look at the thread at some point when i find some time.. i am juggling a lot of responsibilities at the moment - all non astrological..

thanks for your 'equinox' wishes too! cheers james

It's okay, james_m. This is just an internet forum, not real life. Please do feel free to take your time if you decide to read a thread or write a new posting. Maybe ever consider taking time off like astralwanderer if there seem to be any more pressing issues at hand. Best wishes to you.