it's an odd or complicated title - i will give you that!!

i am 1/2 way thru reading a book called 'the souls of china' - the return of religion after mao - by ian johnson 2017... i had read another book by johnson called 'a mosque in munich' which i thought was really fascinating, and was motivated to read another book by him more recent.. so here i am... it dawned on me that both leaders of china and russia have a saturn-neptune conjunction in their birth charts.. i thought this was fascinating from the point of view we are coming up upon a saturn-neptune conjunction very shortly and 2 world leaders - xi jinping and putin - have this conjunction in their charts...

this conjunction might symbolize a lot of different realities, but the one i am intrigued by is the idea that the conjunction or pair are associated with religion.. perhaps they are also closely associated with the idea of communism too.. i know andre barbaults prediction on the fall of the soviet union was based on his speculation of the triple conjunction of saturn-uranus -neptune in the late 80's coinciding with the ussr history related to saturn -neptune... if you are interested in this topic, there is astro literature available online to explore..

i think it was karl marx who said something to the effect 'religion is the opiate of the masses'... according to this book, chairman mao destroyed a lot of religious temples in china during his reign from 1949 until he died in 1976.. it was only afterwards that a renewed relationship between the chinese gov't and religion took on a gradually new nuanced and subtle position... this position seems less rigid and more flexible for the most part - i am getting this from the book.. it discusses xi jinping and a more complex relationship he had with the linji temple.. here is an article that touches on this for anyone interested..
https://www.china-speakers-bureau.com/2 ... n-johnson/

now, while china is thought to be a communist country - like russia - it seems the role of religion plays some sort of important dynamic that is hard to appreciate.. my feeling from the book is that there is an ongoing fear that any 'organized' religion might be seen as a threat to the political establishment, so that it needs to be kept in check and yet, the idea of communism seems to be one of idealism over meeting the needs of the people too.. i know it is complicated!

in all that i have read and heard regarding russia, and putins leadership role in russia, there is a respect for the various religious forms of expression that are considered the worlds religions - christianity ( orthodox mostly) islam, buddhism and etc.. in many ways russia and china under it's present leadership appear to want to embrace the conservative values typically associated with traditional religion.. perhaps in this regard communism and religion are okay bedfellows and perhaps this is again due to the seperation of church and state..

i wondered at how this particular conjunction in xi jinping and v putins chart might feed into the ongoing friendship and relationship between the 2 men.. i don't exactly know how these 2 countries under these 2 leaders, play a role here as we approach 2026 and the upcoming saturn-neptune conjunction, but i thought it was worth making a post on skyscript about it.. i may post a synastry chart between the 2 men, although i don't have a birth time for xi jinping..

The Astrology Podcast just dropped a video this morning about Saturn-Neptune conjunctions in history - Chris Brennan and NIck Dagan Best are always interesting to listen to and do an exceptional job of research.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCLto1i-Cxk
I look forward to reading more about what you come up with James - I don't read Liz Greene anymore, but I seem to remember her commenting in one of her books about the remarkable qualities of people (as in their standing out in their generation) with Saturn-Neptune conjunction in their nativities.
I have two teachers that have meant a lot to me, and they were both born in 1953, so her statement always registered for me. I have a tight square from Saturn to Neptune myself and find it rather difficult (although I recognize its necessity, so to speak), so I am trying to imagine what it's like to be born with the conjunction.
Cheers,
Omphalos

thanks omphalos!

i will try to find some time to give it a listen.. i have found chris brennans work to be great, but i think he needs to do some editing as the podcasts are typically too long...

i too have crossed paths with some gifted musicians born in the 1953 area and also the younger generation 1989 area too.. there is a clear connection with creating harmony and more generally music structure here with saturn and neptune...

i didn't really go into this conjunction discussion too much - just scraped the surface.. i think this idea of idealism or idealistic political or religious systems , can be lacking in something too.. and of course they can become rigid in thinking as well given the role of saturn in the conjunction... channeling ones imagination, another word i associate with neptune - into constructive outlets, whether they be large societal ideas, or more personalized ones, is always potential with these 2 planets coming together in a chart.. the downsides could just as easily happen - disillusionment, or impractical application of these ideals and etc. etc..

i think there is a need for some belief in something greater, a faith in living for some higher meaning or purpose for the betterment of community and civilization more generally.. maybe this is too general an idea to put at the foot of saturn-neptune conjunctions, but on some level i think it works too... it is interesting to finish reading the book i mentioned earlier and see how china is subtly incorporating religion into a lexicon with it's hybrid form of capitalism-communism, by embracing more of buddhism and to an extent the other world religions.. it seems a concern for the welfare of people and societies in general, has taken a real beating if one thinks of all the homelessness and people living on the street here in 2025... the capitalist system seems to be missing any moral or ethical compass at this point as i see it, and struggling to find one too... i wonder if this upcoming conjunction of saturn-neptune will reawaken the importance of finding some moral or ethical values to uplift the communities around the world in this regard?? certainly the concept of choosing peace as opposed to war would be a good place to start..

what will be the major trends that this conjunction evokes in those of us thinking of how we are all together here on ship earth??

HI James,
The Ian Johnson article looks very good - I will read it this week, I hope.
I looked at the AstroDatabank pages for Putin and Xi Jinping's charts - do you think the KGB actually prevents the publication of accurate birth data for Putin? Or that Xi Jinping's birth might be up to two weeks off from the available date?
The rest I will get to along with the Johnson article - your interesting reflections.
The one issue I have with the Chris Brennan/Nick Dagan Best video is that they weren't addressing the significations of Saturn and Neptune right at the beginning, but they may do it later in the video, or are simply assuming that their audience already is familiar. But I think Neptune is quite the enigmatic (or perhaps nebulous?) planet and am interested in its significations. One idea I had was images, records, or materials from the past, given that it "rules" fossil fuels and film both. (Fairly profound how different media such as film and television have affected us.)
Our friend Saturn (the son of the Sun) is better defined and has been studied for so much longer.
Omphalos

thanks omphalos

anything is possible with regard to speculation.. i don't know on the topic of either men, but they do share this saturn-neptune conjunction in libra regardless.. just how much it informs their approach to their work is also open to speculation..

i was thinking yesterday of how the whole class structure - wealthy, verses poor especially - is a very saturn type structure built up on the present form of capitalism, but having a similar dynamic down thru history - those in power - kings/queens and etc - lording it over everyone else is a very saturnian type of structure.. you are 'born' into it and you never get out of it.. i think the idea of socialism or communism was meant to break away from this structure and move towards a more egalitarian type of living on the planet with others.. now - who would want to make sure that didn't happen?? here is another way to think of it, in terms of today..

many people want to be at peace with others, and in the present moment finding peace or a ceasefire to resolve the conflict in ukraine is a hot topic... but any leader or potential leader who wants to make peace with russia ( especially in europe) - the fellow who has been disallowed to run in the romanian election, or le pen ( another person seeking peace with russia) who is being charged with crimes as she gets closer to a real chance at leading france - are both subverted from reaching this... i see it as a class war.. the upper class doesn't want peace - it isn't good for finances... and it appears the number of world leaders who are coming from a background in banking - mark carney new pm in canada, macron - worked for the rothchilds, friedrich merz - a blackrock fellow, and etc. etc. - all of them wanting to keep the financial ponzi scheme going via more war - perpetual war... i think there is something to the idea of the connection between neptune and saturn and a dissolving of these structural barriers based on wealth and power and i think it frightens the daylights out of these same powerful financial groups at the thought people could get along in harmony on the planet, as opposed to being raped and pillaged, reflecting much of our collective history living on the planet... standing up for the collective is a neptunian thing as i see it..

i am idealistic and would like to see these types of changes that benefit everyone, as opposed to a smaller few who continue to manipulate from a more secluded place.. i think people can see how little of any input or true democracy they have in the present state of affairs politically on the planet and they would like to change that.. whether they will be able to is an ongoing question.. i think their is more benefit finding peace and harmony with others then their is continuing to push for war, and yet we see europe in particular - keen to spend all it's money on warfare, as opposed to the welfare of it's own people... so, this neptune saturn conjunction in the early stages of development is very important with regard to my take on what is happening here..

liz greene wrote a whole book on neptune that you might get some ideas from, if you are interested..

In 1846 there were three Saturn-Neptune conjunction in Aquarius. This is approximately the time Hong Xiuqian was preaching in China. Hong eventually rebelled against the Imperial government, setting up the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom (in 1851).

The ensuing civil war, the Taiping Rebellion, ended with Hong's defeat and killed 30 million people, one percent of the *world's* population.