Hello Kirk,

You were right, the Moon separating from a planet without applying to another planet is different from being completely unaspected.

Sue was undeniably right that a Moon with a separating planet can still be VOC as in the chart exhaustively discussed ' Shall Presbytery Stand'.
That was where I was clearly wrong in my understanding. I had thought the VOC Moon had to be devoid of all separating/applying aspects but as shown below that as only one of three possible conditions that meet lilly's approach to VOC.

They can clearly speak for themselves but I don't think what Deb and Sue are stating to date here is the same.

If I understand Sue correctly her position up to now is that it is irrelevant whether the Moon is fully separated or not from its previous aspect. However a VOC Moon must not be applying in another aspect.

Deb on the other hand states that a VOC Moon must be 'fully separated' from its last aspect or not applying to a new one. Deb's position is that Lilly considered 'separated in this context to be outside the orb of the previous aspect.

Lilly's perspective is exemplified in the chart from CA ?Example of another ship? (p165 CA). In this chart the Moon is in an applying aspect but is still judged by Lilly as VOC as it had fully separated from its previous aspect.

This seems definitive evidence that when Lilly referred to 'separated' in terms of VOC he meant fully separated outside orb. We note that when the Moon makes applying aspects in the chart 'Shall Presbytery Stand' it ceases to be VOC. In that chart the Moon is still in a separating aspect to Venus.


Thus there seem 3 scenarios for VOC Moon according to Lilly in Christian Astrology:

a) A Moon separating from its last aspect aspect and not applying to any other planet by orb.
b) A Moon fully separated from its last aspect and applying to any other other by orb.
c) A Moon fully separated from its last aspect and not currently applying to any other.

Whether there is any consenus on the VOC Moon in astrology as a whole Deb's examples seem to clearly show what William Lilly considered a VOC Moon. It seems plausible his approach was typical of all his seventeenth century contemporaries.

Mark

Deb on the other hand states that a VOC Moon must be 'fully separated' from its last aspect or/and not applying to a new one. Deb's position is that Lilly considered 'separated in this context to be outside the orb of the previous aspect.

I keep trying to correct this, because it is not what I am arguing. Yes, a planet that is fully separated from its last aspect and not yet in orb of its next aspect is obviously VOC - but a planet can still be referred to as VOC when out of reach of the next aspect yet still within orb of the last. I am currently marking up my article which explains why the separating aspect is not irrelevant, only in certain situations. Better to wait for that ? it explains the principle in full and I?ll post a link as soon as I can.

Hello Deb,

but a planet can still be referred to as VOC when out of reach of the next aspect yet still within orb of the last.

Yes I understand that. Isn't that the whole point of why the Moon goes VOC in the chart 'Shall Presbytery stand? '

That is scanario a) I mentioned above isn't it? In the chart discussed the Moon is separating ( but still within orb) of Venus but not yet applying to Mars/Jupiter.

Mark

Oh yes that's right - I only noticed the 'and', not the 'or'!

Sorry.

Hello Deb,

I would be interested to know how you personally approach the issue of the outer planets aspecting an otherwise VOC Moon. I know you normally use them so how would that effect your assessment of a chart if the Moon was otherwise VOC in regards the 6 other traditional planets?

Clearly, thats not an issue Lilly can help us with!

Mark

Hello Deb and all,
for my better understanding of this topic I`m presenting you an event chart (when I was operated).
Data Oct17th, at 9:05 AM, Ljubljana, Slovenia, 14.31E 46.03N -2
Asc 12 Sco Moon at 0?24` Virgo.
Is this Moon VOC or it is not? I would like to know the answer is "yes" or "no", nothing more and everything will be clear to me.

Best regards
Trojan

I wanted to give a yes or no answer but the subject simply isn?t that straightforward - unless I mislead you into thinking one person?s definition dismisses the value of everyone else?s. According to Lilly's technique you could count this Moon as voc because it is not presently within orb of an applying aspect. That doesn't mean the future applications are meaningless, but they are not yet in effect.

I?d like to clarify though, that this represents a temporary void of course period. If you take the overview of definitions applied to this term throughout history then it?s usual to expect a ?void of course Moon? to mean one that won?t enter into orb of an aspect for the remainder of its passage through the sign ? giving the sense of the Moon having nothing happening to it now or in the foreseeable future.

I?ve just uploaded the article I referred to, to http://www.skyscript.co.uk/moon2.html

It?s a lengthy article so it?s probably best to print it out. That?s also a good idea for those who might want to refer to it later, as I probably won?t be keeping this one on the site for more than a few months. If anyone should need to reference this, they can use that link as I?ll make it available upon request at a later date.

Hi Deb,

Thank you for uploading your article, ?The Moon as the transmitter of influences?. I have read it, printed it, highlighted it and cannot say enough regards its high standard of excellence.

Finally, we can all see the light on Lilly?s (and other's) meaning of void, translation, collection and lots more?I?m sure that I will be reading it a few more times ? or few dozen

What a great day for astrology!

Alex

Hello Deb,
thank you very much for your answer (explanation).
And, I share AlexMc`s thoughts about your great article.

Trojan

Thanks Deb,

Next time I wade in with a comment on a VOC Moon I will hopefully have an idea what I am talking about!

Most impressive. I hope you get this article published in an astrological periodical.

Mark

AVE ?SAPIENTIA?, MORITURI TE SALUTANT!

Thanks Deborah

John (in English, in my language Ioan, in latin Iohannes or Ioannis)