Kirk,

If you know who it is, I hope you're enjoying the responses as much as I am. I have to bow to the seriously first rate astrolgoers on this forum who look at a chart with nothing more than gender to go on and time and time again they hit the nail on the head. Yes there are mistakes, but so what? I have yet to see anything on any of these threads that is not supportable by sensible astrology even if it turns out to be incorrect.

Deb:

I think the most significant planets with regard to her fame would be Venus rising and Saturn (MC-ruler) conjunct the Moon in the 7th (and opposite the Sun in the first).

Venus definitely and Saturn pops up as important in a series of solar returns. The tricky part about this native is that the things she is best known for are not the only things that jump out in the chart. There are other profound experiences that the general public may not be aware of and yet they are in the chart. Saturn fits in this latter catagory.

I think we are either looking at situations that involve freedom from opponents or relationship issues that involve ?hard work? or have negative undertones.

Both

Either someone who writes raunchy or shocking novels,

No

or who writes politically about sexual/relationship issues, (for example a prominent ?woman libber').

Sort of and if I say more it will be a giveaway.

The Sun is sextile Mars so I think she is seen as outspoken and a ?go getter?

Seriously energetic woman. I ought to add here that despite her being born in Europe, I don't know how well she is known outside the US or if she is known at all outside the US. She might be. I simply don't know.

No more for now.

Tom

The point I was going to elaborate upon earlier, is that the Moon?s conjunction with the MC-ruler suggests her work involves the public, yes, I know that most public figures ?work with the public?, but this is someone who either draws the public to her or can activate public opinion. So I think the public relate to her and her way of thinking, rather than her being an untouchable ?star?. The Moon rules the 3rd house, so again it suggests that she is a writer (or somehow communicating opinion: teaching, broadcasting...), and Pluto on the 3rd house cusp is indicating nitty-gritty material. But then we also have the Sun in opposition to the Saturn-Moon conjunction, so it also looks like she faces a lot of opposition or can divide public opinion. Despite the rising Venus I doubt this woman is universally popular, but more like the type of person you either love or hate, but can?t ignore. I can't help but think that there has to be some involvement with politics, but maybe some scandal is the main reason she is known amongst the public (also because of the points that Yuzura and 3d made).

Oh, and ... thanks for nothing Kirk.

If you know who it is, I hope you're enjoying the responses as much as I am. ... I have yet to see anything on any of these threads that is not supportable by sensible astrology even if it turns out to be incorrect.

I am, and I?m impressed. It has helped to eliminate any lingering doubts about astrology.

Oh, and ... thanks for nothing Kirk.

Do we have a cranky player here?

Hi Deb,

You put a lot of significance to this chart?s Saturn is in the 7th house of partnership and marriage. I have often observed that natives with Saturn in the 7th house are trying to impose their rules on the partner and the relationship patterns/conventions. They are usually very reliable, but difficult and demanding partners in business and private relationships.
So I would conclude that this woman is not easy to live with for a strong man. She has to be the boss.

Ren?

HI 3D
Re:Saturn in in 7th - you are possibly quite right there. Hubby has Saturn in the 7th (and in Cap) and he is finicky....both in business relationships and otherwise. How do I cope? Pluto on Asc!!

I am enjoying these mystery charts a great deal - am trying to hone my chartreading skills so this is just what I need!!

Sisi

She has to be the boss.

I cannot comment on the reason or reasons for what follows because I don't know the reason or reasons, but the native has been married three times.

Tom

Hello Everyone,

In keeping with my ongoing investigation of captivity indicators vs overcoming adversaries indicators, I would say that at one time (or still?) she was threatened with captivity but successfully evaded her adversaries.

The combination of Mars in the 12th in Aries and Saturn afflicting Sun or Moon with partile or platic aspect denotes captivity (CA, p.642). Our Mystery woman has this aspect however, the significations for evading capture and/or overcoming adversaries are stronger and more numerous. Specifically, Lord 10 in 7th (CA, p. 641), a benefic (Venus) co-Lord of 12, Lord 12 in the Ascendant (Venus co-Lord 12) and Dragons? Tail in 7th (Bonatti, consideration #111).

All this figures into some aspect of her fame because Saturn is Lord 10. However, Venus? significations seem more prominent regards what she is famous for, it being in such a close conjunction to the Ascendant and trine the MC, plus the luminaries. Others have already covered these, most expertly.

As usual, very good discussion.

Christina

The combination of Mars in the 12th in Aries and Saturn afflicting Sun or Moon with partile or platic aspect denotes captivity (CA, p.642). Our Mystery woman has this aspect however, the significations for evading capture and/or overcoming adversaries are stronger and more numerous. Specifically, Lord 10 in 7th (CA, p. 641), a benefic (Venus) co-Lord of 12, Lord 12 in the Ascendant (Venus co-Lord 12) and Dragons? Tail in 7th (Bonatti, consideration #111).

This brings up some questions.

Christina notes:

Saturn afflicting Sun or Moon with partile or platic aspect denotes captivity (CA, p.642).

Fair enough; this makes a good deal of sense.

the significations for evading capture and/or overcoming adversaries are stronger and more numerous. Specifically, Lord 10 in 7th (CA, p. 641)

But Lord 10 is the same Saturn that signifes the captivity in the first place. What we're saying here is Saturn by virtue of being Saturn and afflicting the lights indicates captivity, and the same Saturn by virtue of being Lord 10 indicates freedom from captors or eluding captivity. I find this a bit contradictory, if not outright confusing. Yet, for the record, it is an accurate description of events in the native's life.

I would prefer, not that my preferences are mandatory, that we look at Jupiter, the greater benefic in 12 as indicating freedom from captivity. Benefics, particularly benefics in good condition lessen difficulties when they are placed in bad houses (Morin). Saturn afflicting the lights indicates captivity. Mars in the 12th is another indication of captivity, but Jupiter, free from affliction by the malefics, indicates freedom from captivity or at least a lessening of the effects of captvity. Note Jupiter is in the detriment of Saturn.

I think a more precise observation is how Saturn afflicts the Sun and Moon and what the Sun and Moon represent in this chart, particularly the Sun.

Then we get to Bonatti:

the significations for evading capture and/or overcoming adversaries are stronger and more numerous. Specifically, ... <snip> Dragons? Tail in 7th (Bonatti, consideration #111).

Bonatti's 11th consideration says in part:

The 11th is, to consider in nativities and questions especially of Law suits and controversies, whether the Dragon's Tail be in the Seventh? for that signifies damage or overthrow to the Native's enemies and prosperity to the Native or Querent, because the Dragon's Head will then be in the Ascendant.[punctuation and capitalization as in the original]

Come on Guido, if you want to discuss the Dragon's Head in the ASC, then say so; don't go thorugh the back door.

The north node is a benefic and the south a malefic. Bonatti is saying that the native benefits (north node in the ASC) and therefore his enemies (7th house) are weakened (south node in the 7th). While this makes some sense, it is too sweeping a generalization for my tastes. Combined with the other testimonies Christina lists, I'll accept it, but by itself, it doesn't seem like much.

I've seen a few charts where the native had the south node on the ASC, and it seems that in those cases the native did himself in without any assistance whatsoever from enemies, e.g Janis Joplin.

But the main point is that Christina's observations are accurate.

Tom