Hi all, this ought to be a simple answer but I'm having a Neptune moment...

The 5th house rules gifts and all such pleasurable things. The querent wants to know whether the quesited has kept past gifts, correspondence, etc. as there is some, ah, suspicion.

Is this a radix 5th question or a turned 5th house question (radix 11th), as the gifts technically now belong to the other party?

To confuse things, the significator of the radix 5th (Mars) is in the 7th house, but the Moon in the 1st applies by opposition, which I would take as 'no'. The significator of the turned 5th (radix 11th) is Venus, which would make sense for gifts, placed in the radix 10th; the moon applies by trine, which I would take as 'yes'.

Any ideas?

Thanks!
AG

I would use *his* fifth house, as they are his gifts...but that's just me.

Yes, thanks, I suspect I would also take the 11th, but I'm trying to figure out what it's doing in the 10th! I hate turning charts. Maybe the gifts are kept at his home?

Hi all, this ought to be a simple answer but I'm having a Neptune moment...

The 5th house rules gifts and all such pleasurable things. The querent wants to know whether the quesited has kept past gifts, correspondence, etc. as there is some, ah, suspicion.

......

Any ideas?

Thanks!
AG

I am not sure about the question:
Does the querent think that she could be blackmailed about the letters or gifts?
or that some other person knowing about it would do harm to the current relationship?

11th lord in 10th could be a friend at work ??

I agree neptune is at work.LOL

PD

No, it was a simple question. Querent wanted to know if ex had kept some gifts, correspondence, etc.. I didn't ask why, but I don't think it's a blackmail kind of thing. More like either nostalgia or querent wants them back!

Don't forget to look at the descriptions offered by the significators. The first thing I would want to establish is whether he is being decribed as someone lacking in honour, with an inclination towards deceit.

Hi Deb,

Well, he was signified as Saturn Rx in the radix 2nd, so not a good start; perhaps deeply insecure? Greedy?

The chart itself had a 27 degree Cancer ascendant, with the moon barely in Leo, so I put the querent off for awhile, while I figure out whether anything can be gleaned from it with such a late ascendant. It may be that she knows the answer already (or that it doesn't matter at this point), but what I thought would be a simple 5th house question, wasn't, as I'm perplexed over whether to turn the chart, or not. Even if this chart isn't radical, I'd *still* like to know whether to turn the chart for such questions!

So you say to still look at the condition of the significators of the people, rather than the significators for the gifts themselves?

If the chart is not ?speaking? to you, then I think it is wise to put it off ? the late ascendant could be a warning not to get involved in this with limited knowledge of what is really going on.

I wouldn?t be looking for a simple ?yes or no? answer through an opposition or trine, because I don?t think that is a reliable approach and you could be missing a lot of relevant information. I think every chart should begin with a really detailed assessment of the significators (and powerful planets on angles etc), so that you are building up a profile of the characters before trying to judge their actions, and a knowledge of what has been going on and what is happening now. (That seems like a lot of work at first, but as you get used to working with the symbolism it becomes much quicker to process it.)

If he is Saturn, retrograde and in detriment in the 2nd, and opposed by Neptune, then I would definitely view him with suspicion in this kind of question ? but I would also want to get a better insight into the querent too, and whether she is naive, mistrustful, or looks like she has been taken advantage of. If her significator is corrupted and the Moon is afflicted too, then I would definitely stay out of this (given the late ascendant) because it could be that they create ugly affairs between them, and your involvement won?t settle anything but only cause you grief. (I have no reason to think that is the case, just adding a word of caution).

With regards turning the signification. I never turn a chart unless it is necessary to do so. If gifts are in question, then you could just accept that the 5th house rules gifts and see what is happening there. But you mentioned that this goes further than gifts ? correspondence etc, so I don?t think the emphasis is on whether he has kept gifts but whether he has committed fraud with regards to belongings that she has a stake in. From the start I was feeling that this is probably more of a relationship issue with 2nd-8th, or 12th house themes, but the details will come from the chart as a whole and the indications of honesty or malicious intent. No good trying to work out if the gifts are in his home or not, unless the chart has given you a very strong conviction that he is guilty of this, and you feel that it is pointing you to something that should be explored. (It might just end up saying that he has done this, but give up on trying to get these things back because he will never admit it).

That said, if you feel the 5th house-ruler is the best significator for the gifts, then 5th ruler in the 7th is one simple indication that he has them in his home.

Thanks for the lesson, Deb! Having taken all that into account, plus the general confusion of the chart, I think I'll definitely stay well out of it! "Computer says no!"

Although, being curious, I've looked further at the chart: EVERYTHING in the chart pertaining to the question points to Saturn, the ex-partner.

The Moon (querent) is in Saturn's term.
Mercury (correspondence L3) is too, hidden in the 8th with Neptune.
Mars (gifts L5, placed in H7) is too!

I'm inclined to think that he still has the stuff, although what the querent wanted to do with it I have yet to find out.