Hi All!

I am not using any horary software so i manually calculate the strengths and weaknesses of planets according to Lilly Point system.

I have few queries---

Sun seems to give power or weakens, a planet when that planet is

-free from combustion and sun rays
-Cazimi

But there are no points for Sun itself. The result is that few planets end on a high score and Sun scores less.


Jupiter and Venus give power to a planet when that planet is in partile aspect with them. But Jupiter and Venus dont get any points for being so nice.


The other questions are same when Saturn and Mars effect badly a planet with partile aspect or by beseigement.

Most of the times, Sun appears to be close to its average motion. When should we consider him faster or slower.


What should be the orb for Partile aspect?. Does it has to be within exact minutes of a degree?

What is meant by Direct (doesnt apply to Sun and Moon)--Lilly gives 4 positive points for such state. Does it mean that the planets be aspecting a luminary and are not under the sun beams or combustion)

Any help will be appreciated.

Although there are members of the forum that are very fond of the table of dignities of Lilly, I will give my understanding on the matter, so I am not interested in an endless flame war because someone like the renassaince system the best.

My impression is that you are beginning in traditional astrology, right ? So I wouldn?t go so strict in this dignity rules, for oh so many reasons:

1 - We human beings love to give things a number. How many times did you got a "number" for your teacher ? Did this number meant anything ? did it really represent your effort or your capacity ? Did it show how much you learn ? Obviously no. But it make you and your teacher feel you were "doing" something. Same thing with the planets. I think is better for you to really understand the condition of the planet than trying to classify it. "Hmmm, my jupiter is in dignity but retrograde, under the beans and out of sec"

2 - One thing is to say that "exaltation is more powerful than triplicity", other is give 4 points to one and 3 to the other. When we do the last, we start to fight if combustion should or not take more than 5 points, after all combustion is a worst condition than retrograde, and so on and on... meaning that the points in the table in arbitrary and you will always find something that you don?t agree with. And reality is that astrological wisdon is not measured in a linear fashion.

3 - Renaisance men were interpreting astrological lore according to their own reality, including the dawn of scientificism, meaning "only things that can be measured exist". That doesn?t mean that this things SHOULD be put in numbers and measured. More important, according to more ancient lore, we would have to say that they were "adding oranges and apples". Essencial dignity and Accidental shoulnd?t add up. One is showing what kind of things a planet produce, and the other shows how much of the thing the planet will produce.

I think that's a really good answer, yuzuru. I struggled with that darn table for awhile, then decided to use my own judgment about the strengths vs debilities in tandem with aspects, house placement, etc. *without* assigning a number to them.

It just gets too complicated.

GH

Hi yuzuru!---

Thanks.

Lilly is not the final authority on the subject. What he provides is that

-He completes the horary as far as possible (however, he superficially covers the subject of perfection and denial--at some points he assumes that student knows a thing and touches it cursory)

-Secondly his writing is not dry. One feels that he is sitting close and anxious that student is commiting mistakes. His personal concern for instructing is what touches most.

-Admittedly his table for strength and weaknesses can be argued on the basis of point system. But it is more useful (though it contains some flaws) when it is used to select one planet out of two.

-I agree that essential and accidental are two different terms. One describes the quality of the product and later describes the marketability of the product.

-Quanitifying a thing is a beginner task. Integrating its qualitative effect (mentally) comes with practice. After all a novice like me would be pulling his hairs to understand that there are different shades of opinions other than good and bad.

-Perhaps i later on move to love Abu-Maashar or Guidano. But one teacher at a time. If i read too much at a time, i may gain knowledge but not the spirit of what an author is trying to say.

Without prejudice to above, it would be my aim to mix art with discretion

Regards


STJ