Hi All!---

I have received a question from my friend who lives in Dublin (Ireland)

He told me that the time was 09:16pm, Dublin (Ireland)

I am confused. As i am unable to understand the time zones with relation to Pakistan.

I have calculated the ascendant for the above place and time as

Scorpio 13 degrees and 16 minutes.

Am i right?

Hello STJ,

You didn't give us a date for the question. However it matches 9.16pm on the 27th if you are locating the chart to Dublin, Ireland!

However, horary is different from natal astrology in that the timing/location is focused on the astrologer not the client. It only matters what time and place you received and understood the question in Pakistan. I assume you forgot to check the local time you received the question?

Ireland is operating one hour ahead of GMT at present due to Summer daylight saving changes. Islamabad is therefore currently +4 hours ahead of Dublin. So it was presumably 01.16am on the 28th your time in Islamabad. I have the Ascendant as 7'21 in Aquarius.

Good luck

Mark

Hi MarkC!---

Thanks.

Now this adds to confusion. There are divergent point of views regarding receiving of a question.

Some consider that the time and place of the Querent is the right time as its the proper birth of a question. Some regard that it is the time and place of Astrologer--who receive the question--which is important. For consistency i see the time and place of Querent.

Here are few links

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepage ... ossary.htm

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrolog ... stions.php

Hello STJ,

In your link to the article in Astrology Weekly.com the author (Radu Moisoiu) points out he will only accept timed charts from querents if they have a training in horary. Similarly in her book 'The Martial Art of Horary' Lee Lehman only suggests taking the questioner's time if the querent is a trained and experienced horary inquirer, but when it is not the case, or the astrologer has doubts about that, she suggests using the astrologer's time is the wisest option.

I'm not clear what your link to Maurice McCann's site meant. Was there something there you specifically wanted to point out?

I accept things are more complicated these days with International communication by telephone, email, and text message. However, in previous times astrologers would do horary by receipt of a letter. In such charts they would cast a chart for for their location/time of understanding the question. Indeed that still happens.

Philosophically, I strongly feel the astrologer is a participant in the process. Our consciousness is part of the astrological reality not something outside looking in. So I would always seek to time the chart as the astrologer unless another astrologer was asking for an opinion on their horary. Why else did Bonatti and Lilly point out that there were certain reflections in the chart of the astrologer? For example Saturn in the 7th when the astrologer is likely to err in their judgement?

However, its an interesting issue. Perhaps you should create a thread on this and get more feedback?

Hi MarkC!----

Yes i do feel that it needs a separate thread. But since there are strong arguments to support both views. It may provide a good discussion but the people from both sides of the coin would strongly support their point and will leave me high and dry .( I allude to a discussion which took place regarding Eight House Sex discussion)

Since i am novice, so Querents place and time seems more appropriate.

BTW, Querent knew what he was asking and was well educated. If i use the time and place of astrologer, as you prefer. Then the 7th house is Leo 7. Interestingly it is exact degree of my Natal ascendant. If i use Querents time and place, i get ascendant as Scorpio 13.16 (Via combusta) which exatly describes the state of mind of the Querent, and the chart is more in line with the Querent situation.

Regarding McCanns link. I wanted to draw your attention to the following

HOW TO LOCATE THE QUESTION
Always use the latitude and longitude of the person asking the question since the question was born in their mind at their location and not at that of the astrologer. It is their question and only they fully understand it.


HOW TO TIME THE QUESTION
The moment the question is asked either face to face or by telephone is the time to use for drawing the horoscope, whether it is fully understood or not. If the question is included in a letter, fax or on electronic mail, it should be timed for the moment the astrologer reads the question. If the question is not fully understood by the astrologer at that moment, it can be clarified later in discussion with the querent.


Yes, you are right, International communication has clouded the issue of receiving of a Question.

Confusion, confusion


STJ

Hello STJ,

Astrology is full of such choices or 'confusion' if you prefer. For example what house system to use? Do we use the outer planets or not? Modern rulerships or traditional? If we choose traditional astrology do we use an early modern, medieval or hellenistic approach?

I think a lot of people seek out traditional astrology looking for more certainty. However, astrologers always have and always will disagree on areas of technique. Astrology is primarily an art not a science. Like a good artist we need to develop a technique we are comfortable with. Like artists we have our common ground such as paint and canvass but ultimately we must adopt a style that works for us.

It is interesting to see Maurice McCann's view on this. He is an astrologer I respect a lot. I still find his conclusion difficult to accept though. As you state this issue would bring up passion on both sides. However, that is no bad thing. Its not about point scoring or ego. Hopefully, we can all learn something from such discussions. Just as long as there remains more light than heat........

Mark

Hi MarkC---

Ok. We can create another thread (i will post all of this in a separate thread). Yes, you are right difference of techniques do exist in Traditional astrology. But i prefer consistency of approach.

Like i have made up my mind many days ago, that i will use Regiomontanus and time and place of Querent. Psychologically, people will respond to my choice.

Suppose if had been using astrologer time and place as a standanrd. My friend should have called me at different time. Interestingly he called me at 01.16 am (Pakistan) and i was sleeping, so unconsciously if my friend has to respond to my choice of receiving of a question, he will call according to his time and place, not caring that i am supposed to be sleeping.

ahem ahem. Horary seems to be more mysterious.

Hi STJ,

Suppose if had been using astrologer time and place as a standanrd. My friend should have called me at different time. Interestingly he called me at 01.16 am (Pakistan) and i was sleeping, so unconsciously if my friend has to respond to my choice of receiving of a question, he will call according to his time and place, not caring that i am supposed to be sleeping

Well you could have let it go to answerphone or s/he could have emailed Alternatively, he could have written down the question and timed it before contacting you later. Your surely, not suggesting the astrologer has to be at the immediate disposal of querents on a 24/7 basis?

Anyway, I suggest you go for a new thread. This is too limited a topic to take this any further. It would be good to see wider views on this don't you think?

Can you post your above reply in a thread i have created. I will answer you there.