Ficina and Goca
Thank you so much for useful tips !!

Goca
So just to make sure I`ve understtod, you don`t consider the Moon applying to Uranus/Pluto/Nepture(and even to Chiron) an indication of a draw?

Both Ficina and Goca have referred to John Frawley... where can I find the references? He hasn`t written a book on it has he? I haven`t even read his Horary textbook... having read Deb and Sue writing how he deviates from traditional Astrology, I thought I`d just stcik to CA and Skyscript.

Hi Gem
Just thought I should add a note here to say that I hope people appreciate I would only argue about how John uses some principles of traditional astrology. There are many aspects of his Horary Textbook that I think are wonderful, and on the whole I would (and do) recommend his work as worth having. I don?t think John has published his book on sport astrology; the last I heard it was put on hold for another project.

Regards
Deb

Yes, I think we have to continue waiting patiently until John publishes his Sports Astrology book. There's a section on contests in his Horary Textbook. Obviously they are horaries but his method seems to be the same for event charts. There are also some footie articles in his Astrologer's Apprentice magazines. Basically he's had masses of experience so it's a great starting point for learning what to look out for. But, as I've said before, nothing beats your own observations and experience of what works most consistently.

Re Champions League Final, the bookies now have Milan as definite favourites.

I'll pass over the West Ham game.

That's a stupid Horary to do because only one team could loose and that was West Ham.

Hard to see who gets the Glory when Utd already had it and could loose and still WIN.

Considering it was a league game.

I hope I'll learn from that but the chances are slim.

So........

Good to see such a rapid debate!!!

Wooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh or Wowwww

I've been reading up on Horary and a few terms came up that I couldn't put to bed.

If you/ someone can explain them to me then I'll be grateful.

There in biggest value to me first order.

What is Transfer of light?

I get a feeling for this but can't define it.

Dispositer? Don't see this?

How do we decide if Reception strengthens or weakens?

I think I get a feel for this. So received into Saturn or Mars would not help, or into detriment or fall.

What role does the Moon really play ?

Answers on a 800,000 page text book please.

Ficina Moon on every angle to be good or just Asc, Mc (maybe IC) but also Dsc?

How do we decide where the perfection happens? Is this where one meets the secondary other, and if so which meets which, or where they actually do meet as both move?

Still haven't got the info for the hours for checking radicality.

It's a bit sad becasue I think it is pretty straight forward.

Altumen is not always natural sign ruler is it?

but how do we get to it. I sort of know this.

And in fact this one should be at the top.

When I pull up a chart which includes Saturn and/or Mars as signifiers does this automatically mean one of the parties involved has Saturn or Mars attributes or just that those planets are filling the role?

A bit like at the Am Dram the local mafia man plays the Heroine so we forget about who he really is whilst he plays/ acts or is that just impossibe to do?!

I hope that's clear. It's a fundamental but if we go back to the Relationship Charts a Girl probably wouldn't want to find Saturn or Mars representing the 7th house, if you get my drift.

I know Saturn and Mars need not always be BAD BAD but heh.

Deb's notes show some Houses that are bad for certain planets.

Are there further examples of these? And what actually happens when Mars is the 5th? Does it get better for Mars or worse?

Heh I'm really pleased to be back.

I recommend the Corrupted Computer for a few days or weeks.

It's like when the TVs broken. PEACE.

H.

Ficinia: Re Champions League Final, the bookies now have Milan as definite favourites.

That would agree with our 'lunar' observations. Moon in Virgo dexter sextile to Cancer (Milan) and sinister sextile to Scorpio (Liverpool) indicating possesion and a more rational game from Milan; Liverpool breaking through on counter strike or a swift element of surprize.

Wow! Isn't this thread of discussion ever hot!!

Deb
I greatly appreciated you and Sue illuminated where exactly Frawly departed from traditional practices.

Ficina
Thanks again for the tip! What about the FA Cup on Sat? I only looked at the Coral website and it seemed 50-50. My feeling is that Man U`d be the favourites.

Yikkes!
Are you talking about Horary or event charts? With event charts used for sports predictions, diginities don`t matter so much. As for traditional terms, look at the`Glossary of Traditional Terms` in this site.

So far I only do Horary Horror!!!

Yikkes!
As Gem has said, you should be able to find the answers to most of your questions in the glossary

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/glossary.html

Ficina Moon on every angle to be good or just Asc, Mc (maybe IC) but also Dsc?

I realise I've been somewhat ambiguous when referring to angular Moon. What I mean is it has to be in an angular house, not specifically conjunct an angle. In fact if it is conj MC for example but in the 9th I'd be very wary because in real time it is moving further into a cadent house. As I said before, 4th is less reliable, the others are better.

Gem,

What about the FA Cup on Sat? I only looked at the Coral website and it seemed 50-50. My feeling is that Man U`d be the favourites.

Virtually all the bookies appear to be 50-50. It's really annoying! I don't have a strong feeling either way. Any particular reason why you're going for ManU?

Here is how I see chart for FA cup:

We have 27Vi36 ASC.
Ruler of ASC is Me in his own sign in cadent house. Vi means blue colour, so ASC=Chelsea
Ruler of DSC is Ju (blue, red) but because of Ma (red) in their 1st house I would asign DSC to MU.
Their ruler Ju is in its own sign but retro in cadent house too.
Accidental dignities
Ju=5 Me=15
That is on the "edge". So, it will be tight but I gave advantage to Chelsea (to win cup) because their ruler is direct, and because of Moon in angular 10th house (Ficina method), house of fame for ASC team.

Andrew

Wow! Isn't this thread of discussion ever hot!!

Yeah, isn't it! I missed your post yesterday. So which team has got your vote? (sorry if you have already mentioned it pages ago). I also would love to hear what you think about the outcome of the FA Cup Final on Sat(19/5/07 15:00, Wembley).

Ficina

Any particular reason why you're going for ManU?

Maybe I should have put that I'm merely hoping Uted would get the AC... but oh no, Goca is going for Chelsea...

I looked at the 2005 UEFA Final chart. How could Liverpool manage to win the trophy despite the Moon being in the 1st?? I believe they were the underdogs then too, so Mercury is Liverpool in this chart as in this year's. Probably it was because Jupiter(AC ruler) was Rx and the 10th ruler on the 7th cusp worked for them(as Goca said yesterday).
Jupiter was exactly trining Liverpool captain Gerrard's Sun. Both Liverpool manager Benetiz and Gerrard have a strong synastry with the foundation chart of Liverpool FC, which I think prove some validity of the founding chart(Liverpool FC has Sun at 25 Pisces).

Maybe I should have put that I'm merely hoping Uted would get the AC... but oh no, Goca is going for Chelsea...

We seem to be in agreement that the Asc team will win. Someone suggested to me that Wembley is much closer to "home" for Chelsea, but I'm not totally convinced by that argument.

How could Liverpool manage to win the trophy despite the Moon being in the 1st??

Haha, I wondered when you'd pick up on that one It's only been during the current season that I've noted the effect of the angular Moon. Two years ago I was using slightly different methods. I predicted a win for Liverpool in the 2005 final. Yes, Milan were the favourites but I couldn't see them winning with Pluto conj Asc and Moon in Cap. The Moon also has a role in showing how the favourites will fare. I know we don't use essential dignity for sigs, but Moon in detriment does seem to have an effect, although not when it's in fall, strangely. In the Arsenal v Chelsea game on 6 May, although Moon was in 4th (for Chelsea), it was in Cap which I disregarded at the time, but it definitely had an effect as the result was a draw. Still learning

Very interesting, Ficina. I have a few Cap Moons in my small file and will have a look at them in the light of your observations.
By the way, Man Uted are after all, the champions of the Premiership in this country, a status above Chelsea. Can that entitle them to have the AC, don`t you think??